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Amazon faces FAA probe after delivery drone snaps internet cable in Texas

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Re: Amazon faces FAA probe after delivery drone snaps internet cable in Texas

#111

I used to work in perception for autonomous aerial vehicles and horizontal wires were the hardest common object to avoid. Traditional stereo won't help you localize them -- wires are thin so even mere detection can be hard, and one portion of a wire looks much like another so feature matching fails resulting in bad or no depth estimates -- and LIDAR sacrifices resolution for weight and power consumption (which both h…

Helicopter pilots have trouble with them as well.

Re: Amazon faces FAA probe after delivery drone snaps internet cable in Texas

#112

[flagged]

Annoying drone buzzing when it works, 80lb bricks from heaven when it doesn't. Not really looking forward to that future.

I already get annoyed at police helicopters hovering at night. I can only imagine what dozens of different delivery services would sound like.

Re: Amazon faces FAA probe after delivery drone snaps internet cable in Texas

#113
post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> And the whiskers don't have to be all floppy like a wet noodle. I myself am thinking that something rigid or semi-rigid might be good. I don't think you're right about this. The concept of the whiskers is to notice when you've collided with something. Real whiskers aren't rigid because colliding with something when you're rigid means snapping. (Ever stub your toe?) Think of the rigidity of the whiskers as being tra…

I don't think you read my entire comment, or perhaps you're very unfamiliar with the operation of a PS3's analog control. (The whisker can be both rigid and also flexibly-attached. These are not mutually-exclusive constructs.)

Here, suppose you've got a rigid sensor attached to your hand by a string of yarn.

You walk in one direction, then turn around and start walking in a different direction, but as you turn the sensor slams into something.

Does it fail to take damage because the yarn is flexible?

Re: Amazon faces FAA probe after delivery drone snaps internet cable in Texas

#114
post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think you read my entire comment, or perhaps you're very unfamiliar with the operation of a PS3's analog control. (The whisker can be both rigid and also flexibly-attached. These are not mutually-exclusive constructs.)

Here, suppose you've got a rigid sensor attached to your hand by a string of yarn. You walk in one direction, then turn around and start walking in a different direction, but as you turn the sensor slams into something. Does it fail to take damage because the yarn is flexible?

Huh?

Suppose I've got an assembly with a chopstick attached to a gimbal with some minor centering springs and sensors (potentiometers) inside. The chopstick has many degrees of free angular movement provided by this gimbal and overall assembly.

I gently bounce ("slam"?) that chopstick off of a thing, and this results in the feedback loop that provides positioning control to provide immediate instruction to back off in the opposite direction of the apparent impact.

Does the chopstick take damage? Does the gimbal take damage? Does the greater assembly take damage?

Why, or why not?

(I feel like we're speaking two different languages here. Have you ever looked at how a PS3 analog stick works, or have you not? It's not new tech. It wasn't even new when it was new, and it's very nearly 20 years old now in PS3 form.)

Re: Amazon faces FAA probe after delivery drone snaps internet cable in Texas

#115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cables don't move often. Why not simply have a map of all of them? Google sell maps of things like this from street view data.

Any one particular cable might not move often, but if a telco owns N bucket trucks it's a safe bet that about N cables move every workday. Telcos are notoriously secretive about the location of their fiber. They even got most state legislatures to exempt it from state-level FOIA laws.

If you have a map of all utility poles you could probably just avoid every straight line between any of them within some reasonable distance of eachother.

Re: Amazon faces FAA probe after delivery drone snaps internet cable in Texas

#116
post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here, suppose you've got a rigid sensor attached to your hand by a string of yarn. You walk in one direction, then turn around and start walking in a different direction, but as you turn the sensor slams into something. Does it fail to take damage because the yarn is flexible?

Huh? Suppose I've got an assembly with a chopstick attached to a gimbal with some minor centering springs and sensors (potentiometers) inside. The chopstick has many degrees of free angular movement provided by this gimbal and overall assembly. I gently bounce ("slam"?) that chopstick off of a thing, and this results in the feedback loop that provides positioning control to provide immediate instruction to back off i…

> I gently bounce ("slam"?) that chopstick off of a thing

Hey, remember when I said this?

>>>> Think of the rigidity of the whiskers as being traded off against your maximum movement speed.

Appendages on a moving object can't contact anything gently. They have to strike at whatever speed they're moving at.

Re: Amazon faces FAA probe after delivery drone snaps internet cable in Texas

#117
post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It would be great that the drone had some kind of tactile sensibility. Go slowly in the opposite direction of said contact first, then if that is not working try to rotate on one of the horizontal axis while going in the opposite direction to see if it make a difference, and if it doesn't then something is stuck on your skin, and you should be able to notice that your weight is not the same as before; if that's not t…

That would be okay if you were flying forward at a snail's pace so that initial contact doesn't take out the drone. i'm thinking of all of the times my Roomba has plowed full speed into something and then slowly backed away. If drone behaved that way, it wouldn't be very good. i'm also thinking of all of the times my drones acted that way when i was learning to fly and getting cocky. it wasn't good for them

Maybe this behavior should be adopted once a certain relative altitude is reached.

Otherwise, yes ... I can see a world where this procedure is catastrophic.

Re: Amazon faces FAA probe after delivery drone snaps internet cable in Texas

#118
post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Huh? Suppose I've got an assembly with a chopstick attached to a gimbal with some minor centering springs and sensors (potentiometers) inside. The chopstick has many degrees of free angular movement provided by this gimbal and overall assembly. I gently bounce ("slam"?) that chopstick off of a thing, and this results in the feedback loop that provides positioning control to provide immediate instruction to back off i…

> I gently bounce ("slam"?) that chopstick off of a thing Hey, remember when I said this? >>>> Think of the rigidity of the whiskers as being traded off against your maximum movement speed. Appendages on a moving object can't contact anything gently. They have to strike at whatever speed they're moving at.

Yes, you've successfully confirmed: We're quite clearly speaking different languages.

(Good luck with...whatever it is that you may be talking about. My diction is good. I don't have time or patience to explain it for outliers who aren't following along well and who also insist that it must somehow be wrong. I apologize for this; I am actually sorry.)

Re: Amazon faces FAA probe after delivery drone snaps internet cable in Texas

#119
post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You should really consider how much energy it takes to levitate an 80lb drone while flying across town, compared to how much energy it takes to roll an 8000lb van across town (even ignoring the fact that the van might deliver 100 packages while making it's way across town).

An 8,000lb van will be using fossil fuels and emit particulates from tire and brake dust. Unless it was incredibly efficient and electricity for the drones was coming from coal plants, the van would emit more pollution. But the biggest harm is people getting hit by vehicles. Delivery drones are much smaller and don't spend nearly as much time near people. Since drones can deliver stuff more quickly than large vans, t…

I'm not so sure that the numbers will bear out what you sketch here. If we assume a drone flight per package and we scale this up to get rid of all of the delivery vehicles the number of people hit by and killed by drones will rise substantially. Drones are immature tech at best and a 5 Kg drone will put you in the morgue on impact with a greater likelihood than an accident with a delivery van. Gravity has no brakes and a drone isn't going to be able to refuse its imperative when the tech inevitably fails. I think you have to watch out not to be so 'anti' one thing that you end up with another that is as bad or even worse. Maybe the solution isn't drones and not delivery vans either.

Re: Amazon faces FAA probe after delivery drone snaps internet cable in Texas

#120
post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thin lightweight whiskers are going to be challenging to manage on a propeller-driven vehicle. They'll get blown all over the place. Having them extend out past the propellers will likely get them tangled in the propellers.

Sure, they'll move around in the prop wash. But that's fine, isn't it? If they're intended to detect fixed objects, then noticing that one or more of them have ceased to be blown around in that way may be a good way to detect unanticipated contact with a fixed object: When the signal becomes less noisy, then maybe something is in the way. And the whiskers don't have to be all floppy like a wet noodle. I myself am thi…

Rigid whiskers have other sets of problems. Below someone mentioned that rigid whiskers will break when they contact objects. If the whisker is as rigid as the drone itself, it plausibly breaks the same cables that the drone breaks. You also have the problem that in the event of drone failure, you now have a spike-covered drone falling out of the sky. What kind of damage does a bamboo chopstick or thin piece of steel do when it hits someone or something at ground level at drone-falling velocity with the mass of a drone behind it?

It's quite possible that these problems are solvable and can be engineered around, that there's a whisker-based solution, but I don't see it. It's certainly not an obviously workable solution.

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