Are consumers just tech debt to Microsoft? • Hacker News Board

Re: Are consumers just tech debt to Microsoft?

#111

Post by d3Xt3r » Sun, Nov 23, 2025, 7:56 PM UTC

sedatk wrote: post #93

> The only thing of note they have added to Windows in the last five years is Copilot That's a quite unfair take, especially when it fails to compare it with what things of note Linux distros have added over the last five years. Valve made Windows emulation better, yes. That's it. What else? Actually, I wouldn't even call Copilot a thing of note. It's just ChatGPT-in-a-popup at the moment. A real thing of note is WSL…

> Despite all the cons, it's still a very good OS.

I disagree, "a very good OS" wouldn't leave major issues unfixed for 5+ months and counting: https://www.neowin.net/news/microsoft-finally-admits-almost-...

If Windows was "a very good OS", us Windows sysadmins would've been out of a job a long time ago! A good portion of our job involves trying to fix or workaround things that Microsoft breaks every Patch Tuesday, logging tickets with Microsoft, dealing with the asinine Microsoft Support (who don't even know how to extract .cab files from the logs generated by the Microsoft Support Tool!), and implementing fixes and workarounds for unwanted "features" they manage to sneak into the latest update.

Actually, I concede that it is "a very good OS" - it is very good for keeping me employed!

Re: Are consumers just tech debt to Microsoft?

#112

Post by erikerikson » Sun, Nov 23, 2025, 7:56 PM UTC

> a version of Linux that is optimized for gamers

Bazzite has been great for me so far except for a few exceptions to okay with friends. With the end of support for 10 and the hostile crap Windows has become, I'm trying to see how to transition. Anti-cheat and business agreements seem to be the only real remaining barriers.

And to the original question: no, consumers are moat to the enterprise licensing pot of gold.

Re: Are consumers just tech debt to Microsoft?

#113

Post by raw_anon_1111 » Sun, Nov 23, 2025, 7:56 PM UTC

rconti wrote: post #14

The web/webapps/mobile helped lead to this era of "desktop PCs" (to include laptops) where the browser mattered more than the OS. It allowed Apple to become resurgent in the desktop market because OS compatibility mattered less than ever. It's not weird that it led to Apple regaining _some_ market share because clearly there was demand for the Apple/MacOS/OS X experience that may have been tempered by incompatibility…

You mean alienate their desktop users by making chips specifically targeting them that are fast, run cool, quiet and have ridiculously long battery lives?

You’ve seen much more frequent updates in the Mac line post ARM than you did in the Intel era.

Re: Are consumers just tech debt to Microsoft?

#114

Post by sofixa » Sun, Nov 23, 2025, 7:56 PM UTC

cameldrv wrote: post #27

PaulHoule wrote: post #2

Yeah, this book was hugely influential https://www.google.com/search?q=innovator%27s+dilemma&ie=UTF... And came to the conclusion that many firms like DEC and Xerox did not sufficiently move to new technology because their customers were not interested and didn’t feel served by it, at least not until it had decades to improve. Today we have the FOMO dilemma where executives all read that book and no way they are goin…

This more recently happened to IBM (as a computer manufacturer). If your platform is not accessible to hobbyists, the next generation will not be familiar with it, and when they go get a job, it probably won't be with the technology they don't know. Then, assuming there is a credible alternative, the inaccessible technology will die out in a generation, as we've seen with IBM mainframes.

> Then, assuming there is a credible alternative, the inaccessible technology will die out in a generation, as we've seen with IBM mainframes

Unfortunately IBM mainframes are still around. No new customers, but existing ones are too afraid of touching it because it's usually the result of decades of spaghetti hence they're locked in for the forseeble future. So they'll keep renewing contracts and refreshing hardware periodically. IBM prints money with this stuff, and use some of it for all their acquisitions of various software companies (biggest one was Red Hat) to leverage their massive B2B sales org to sell oher stuff to those existing customer relationships.

Re: Are consumers just tech debt to Microsoft?

#115

Post by charcircuit » Sun, Nov 23, 2025, 7:57 PM UTC

sedatk wrote: post #93

> The only thing of note they have added to Windows in the last five years is Copilot That's a quite unfair take, especially when it fails to compare it with what things of note Linux distros have added over the last five years. Valve made Windows emulation better, yes. That's it. What else? Actually, I wouldn't even call Copilot a thing of note. It's just ChatGPT-in-a-popup at the moment. A real thing of note is WSL…

Another useful W11 feature (that later got backported to W10) is seamless integration with graphical Linux apps. You can just double click an icon on your desktop and it opens up in a window like any other app. Passkey support was added which made securely signing into site easier. Dev drive was added that makes it so building on windows is faster. Support for low latency Bluetooth was added.

Re: Are consumers just tech debt to Microsoft?

#116

Post by thfuran » Sun, Nov 23, 2025, 7:57 PM UTC

chongli wrote: post #56

qgin wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Looking like 2028-2030 but it's a moving target. Since we're basically getting flying cars next year at the World Cup, I guess it's going to be after flying cars.

I prefer fusion power as the go-to vapourware technology. It’s been “10-20 years out” for 70 years and counting. I don’t see any reason to believe that “AGI office workers” will be ready to go by 2030. All signs right now are pointing to a looming plateau in their capabilities.

Fusion is always years away because funding has been at or below the minimal "fusion never" levels since the '70s: https://fire.pppl.gov/us_fusion_plan_1976.pdf

Re: Are consumers just tech debt to Microsoft?

#117

Post by raw_anon_1111 » Sun, Nov 23, 2025, 7:57 PM UTC

wongarsu wrote: post #45

rconti wrote: post #14

The web/webapps/mobile helped lead to this era of "desktop PCs" (to include laptops) where the browser mattered more than the OS. It allowed Apple to become resurgent in the desktop market because OS compatibility mattered less than ever. It's not weird that it led to Apple regaining _some_ market share because clearly there was demand for the Apple/MacOS/OS X experience that may have been tempered by incompatibility…

Apple is at least in part operating like they are a fashion brand. Functionality and usability are secondary to looks. Both in their devices and their software. It's hard to argue they aren't successful with that. It probably helps that Microsoft has also abandoned usability, just for very different reasons

Are you complaining that Apple is releasing computers that are fast, quiet and with a ridiculous long battery life that are well built as “not functional”?

Re: Are consumers just tech debt to Microsoft?

#118

Post by [deleted] » Sun, Nov 23, 2025, 7:58 PM UTC

raw_anon_1111 wrote: post #113

rconti wrote: post #14

The web/webapps/mobile helped lead to this era of "desktop PCs" (to include laptops) where the browser mattered more than the OS. It allowed Apple to become resurgent in the desktop market because OS compatibility mattered less than ever. It's not weird that it led to Apple regaining _some_ market share because clearly there was demand for the Apple/MacOS/OS X experience that may have been tempered by incompatibility…

You mean alienate their desktop users by making chips specifically targeting them that are fast, run cool, quiet and have ridiculously long battery lives? You’ve seen much more frequent updates in the Mac line post ARM than you did in the Intel era.

[deleted]

Re: Are consumers just tech debt to Microsoft?

#119

Post by d3Xt3r » Sun, Nov 23, 2025, 7:58 PM UTC

qgin wrote: post #17

Nobody seems to want to use Copilot, but Microsoft is in a great position when AGI "drop-in office workers" become a thing. They can just provision however many virtual coworkers to a Microsoft Teams instance and you'll be handing off documents and chatting with the AGI workers pretty much as you would any other remote worker. Microsoft doesn't have to be first or best here. Just owning the plumbing of so many presen…

Relevant: https://www.pcgamer.com/software/ai/microsofts-head-of-ai-do...

Re: Are consumers just tech debt to Microsoft?

#120

Post by [deleted] » Sun, Nov 23, 2025, 7:59 PM UTC

llbbdd wrote: post #33

bitmasher9 wrote: post #8

No, consumers are not tech debt to Microsoft. Yes, Microsoft is shifting away from consumer technology. The difference is Microsoft is squeezing every last drop of profit from consumers on their way out. That’s not debt, that’s an asset. In 25 years Microsoft will be similar to Oracle. Maybe they’ll have investments in some consumer brands, but largely they will be selling to enterprises and governments.

I'm young, I'll take that bet. In 25 years windows will still have greater than 50% consumer computer marketshare out of sheer momentum.

[deleted]