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California DMV approves map increase in Waymo driverless operations

dmv.ca.gov

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Re: California DMV approves map increase in Waymo driverless operations

#111

Post by cyberax »

freddie_mercury wrote: post #54
epicureanideal wrote: post #21

I’m looking forward to the day when the cost of taking one of these falls to somewhere 20% above the cost of fuel and wear and tear on the vehicle, making it incredibly cheap to take a ride anywhere you’d reasonably want to be driven to.

How do you know it isn't already at that price? Uber estimated that it costs Waymo $2/mile to operate. Google says they charge $1.60 to $2.60 a mile, depending on location and demand, so Waymo is already almost certainly at the price you claim you'd be taking it. I think you dramatically underestimate how much it actually costs to operate a car. Most people think they pay $0 to garage their car, for instance, since t…

> Uber estimated that it costs Waymo $2/mile to operate.

Waymo costs are immaterial right now. Their cars are not production cars, and they have spent billions on R&D that they can't even hope to recoup with the current fleet.

That being said, $2 is super-low. The IRS rate for car depreciation write-off is 71 cents per mile.

> But that's still pretty expensive to be using as a daily commuter!

The true cost of a transit ride in NYC or Seattle is around $20-$30 per ride. People don't actually pay that much because it's heavily subsidized.

Once self-driving matures, it'll also be subsidized and it will completely kill off transit. Maaaaaybe excluding subways in some areas.

Re: California DMV approves map increase in Waymo driverless operations

#112

Post by Analemma_ »

enraged_camel wrote: post #105
krat0sprakhar wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> then I’d wait 10 minutes, then they’d cancel. Rinse and repeat for 30 minutes, This is such a common problem in SF (esp in odd times / from the airport). Waymo has been a lifesaver in these situations.

Ironically it is the very problem taxis had that allowed Uber and Lyft to grow in popularity. Funny how that works!

Yeah, drivers want to maximize their hourly revenue, and this is frequently at odds with the wants of passengers. For a while, VC subsidies meant Uber and Lyft could pretend they were fundamentally different somehow, but that's all over now that they're public, and the classic misaligned incentives between drivers and passengers are back in play.

The cars are increasingly beat-up too, another thing we incorrectly believed was Uber being fundamentally different from and better than yellow cabs.

Re: California DMV approves map increase in Waymo driverless operations

#113

Post by Analemma_ »

Rodeoclash wrote: post #44
poszlem wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not saying this HAS to happen. But I remember when Ubers were clean, quiet, cheap too. I think you are just looking at a product before the enshittification, when they still have to pretend they care about your comfort.

It will undoubtedly get enshittifed in its own way, probably higher prices, but at least it will be reliable when booked. Ubers seem to be a crap shoot these days if they're actually going to come and get you.

I can't guarantee that Waymo won't be enshittified, but one fundamental difference with Uber is that Waymo doesn't need to compete in the labor market for drivers. When the low end of the labor market got red hot in 2023-24, that's when Uber prices climbed rapidly because drivers had other options; Waymo won't have this problem. It won't be affected by other things like ever-rising health care costs or local regulations guaranteeing driver wage floors either.

Re: California DMV approves map increase in Waymo driverless operations

#115

Post by JuniperMesos »

willio58 wrote: post #26

I didn’t think I’d be so pro Waymo but anecdotally I had a fantastic experience with one recently. I was at a music show very late ~1-2am in SF and walked out to grab an uber to the airbnb I was staying at. I kept getting assigned an uber, then I’d wait 10 minutes, then they’d cancel. Rinse and repeat for 30 minutes, mind you I even resorted to calling Lyfts at the same time and nothing bit. Then I say screw it and d…

If you're playing it via Spotify, it's not your music, it's Spotify's. Waymo is cool technology but I am disappointed at how the app requires a Google account plus access to google play services on an Android phone, and how the streaming music feature requires some kind of protocol that only Spotify and some proprietary Google music app support. All of my music is stored on a personal server that I stream to my phone via Jellyfin, and this does not work in a Waymo.

Re: California DMV approves map increase in Waymo driverless operations

#116

Post by hackernewds »

kfarr wrote: post #27

This is super awesome but to set expectations it appears that Waymo is quite limited by fleet capacity in all of its current operating zones, so as a practical matter it may be months or years before it operates in all these areas. If you're interested in this stuff I highly recommend this podcast, not affiliated with it I genuinely think it's a great source to hear about the behind the scenes of fleet operations to…

The bigger blocker isn't the technology or the fleet. It's commercial viability and Luddite and populist politicians.

Re: California DMV approves map increase in Waymo driverless operations

#117

Post by wilg »

JuniperMesos wrote: post #115
willio58 wrote: post #26

I didn’t think I’d be so pro Waymo but anecdotally I had a fantastic experience with one recently. I was at a music show very late ~1-2am in SF and walked out to grab an uber to the airbnb I was staying at. I kept getting assigned an uber, then I’d wait 10 minutes, then they’d cancel. Rinse and repeat for 30 minutes, mind you I even resorted to calling Lyfts at the same time and nothing bit. Then I say screw it and d…

If you're playing it via Spotify, it's not your music, it's Spotify's. Waymo is cool technology but I am disappointed at how the app requires a Google account plus access to google play services on an Android phone, and how the streaming music feature requires some kind of protocol that only Spotify and some proprietary Google music app support. All of my music is stored on a personal server that I stream to my phone…

It's not your music unless you own the copyright, even if its on a disc or drive.

Re: California DMV approves map increase in Waymo driverless operations

#118

Post by wilg »

CaliforniaKarl wrote: post #52
pfooti wrote: post #13

Looking forward to the highway expansion next. I had to get from mountain view to san francisco yesterday, and waymo was _able_ to do this trip, it was going to take several hours and get routed up el camino real the whole way. Luckily I was standing very close to a caltrain station when I needed the ride, so i just caltrained, and then waymo'd from the SF station to where i needed to be.

BTW, this is the way: Assuming nothing exceptional, with the every-half-hour or better frequency, I use Waymo to get to a Caltrain station, take Caltrain to a nearby stop, and then Waymo from there to destination.

It would be dope if the Waymo app, given that it knows the travel times via Google maps transit and your location, could arrange this for you so you walk right into a waiting Waymo the moment your train arrives, and the whole thing could be routed as one trip in the app.

Re: California DMV approves map increase in Waymo driverless operations

#119

Post by Neywiny »

willio58 wrote: post #26

I didn’t think I’d be so pro Waymo but anecdotally I had a fantastic experience with one recently. I was at a music show very late ~1-2am in SF and walked out to grab an uber to the airbnb I was staying at. I kept getting assigned an uber, then I’d wait 10 minutes, then they’d cancel. Rinse and repeat for 30 minutes, mind you I even resorted to calling Lyfts at the same time and nothing bit. Then I say screw it and d…

Seeing a lot of people confused on why drivers do this. What I was told after it happened to me is that I was getting an Uber at the busiest time of the week (Friday afternoon) and going a few miles (I lived near an airport at the time). Others were going much further, so drivers wanted those. But they can't deny the ride, that dings their account. So they do that garbage to annoy everybody instead. Meaning, maybe, your ride just wasn't worth it for them. Robots don't have salaries but also Waymo I guess has no systematic issue that causes such a mess in the first place

Re: California DMV approves map increase in Waymo driverless operations

#120

Post by VanTheBrand »

I was skeptical about Waymo but then I had the opportunity to ride a Waymo and an Uber the same day. The Waymo trip was uneventful but the uber driver drifted into oncoming traffic then jerked the wheel back and said “whoah,” when I alerted him.

It made me realize that even though Waymo is not at level 5 yet, neither are a lot of Uber drivers…

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