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How Quake.exe got its TCP/IP stack

fabiensanglard.net

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Re: How Quake.exe got its TCP/IP stack

#111

Post by skywal_l »

klaussilveira wrote: post #85
PeterHolzwarth wrote: post #42

Is this the sign that Fabian is beginning his look and research at Quake (ie, in slow preparation for another Game Engine Black Book)?

He most definitely is cooking something. Seen contributions from him to chocolate-quake: https://github.com/Henrique194/chocolate-quake/pull/60 As well as bug reports: https://github.com/Henrique194/chocolate-quake/issues/57 I personally would love to get some help with my chocolate Doom 3 BFG fork, specially with pesky OpenGL issues: https://github.com/klaussilveira/chocolate-doom3-bfg

He said he was working on something in a comment a couple of months ago on a thread about typst: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44356883

Re: How Quake.exe got its TCP/IP stack

#112

Post by skywal_l »

klaussilveira wrote: post #88
bombcar wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I feel he's stepping his way to that, but Quake is an entire other world of complexity from DooM (which is simple enough that a 400+ page book can "explain" it and the OS and the computers it ran on).

Andre Lamothe's "Tricks of the 3d Game Programming Gurus: Advanced 3d Graphics and Rasterization" is a great book for anyone interested in graphics programming from those days.

Also "The Black Book"[0] of Michael Abrash who worked on Quake with Carmack.

[0]: https://www.amazon.fr/Michael-Abrashs-Graphics-Programming-S...

Re: How Quake.exe got its TCP/IP stack

#113

Post by EGreg »

olau wrote: post #91
EGreg wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I remember back in the day using DJGPP (DJ Delorie) with the Allegro library (Shawn Hargreaves), building little games that compiled and ran on Windows and other OSes, and being part of the community. You can still play the little game I made in under 10K for the Allegro SizeHack competition in 2000: https://web.archive.org/web/20250118231553/https://www.oocit... Back then I was also writing a bunch of articles on ga…

Yes. DJGPP and Allegro was a great help, and a big step up from the old Borland Turbo Pascal I started out with. I remember trying to rotate an image pixel by pixel in Pascal. Allegro simply had a function to do it. And yes, the mailing list was great - Shawn Hargreaves and the couple of people in the inner circle (I seem to remember someone called George) were simply awesome, helpful people. I eventually installed R…

George Foot :)

Re: How Quake.exe got its TCP/IP stack

#114

Post by jhgb »

djdelorie wrote: post #101
thatjoeoverthr wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thank you for this work. It was my first C compiler in 1998. Y'all helped me on the mailing list and you even replied to my e-mails! I was 11 and this was insane to me.

You're welcome!

I too need to thank you for the very first C compiler I ever had access to in 1999, after 10 years of having a book on C in my possession that I couldn't use until then.

Re: How Quake.exe got its TCP/IP stack

#115

Post by franga2000 »

ogurechny wrote: post #46
sroussey wrote: post #3

I was half expecting something about how to get tcp into windows, but this is win95 where they shipped it inside the os and put some company out of business that used to sell that.

The turbulent times and the breakneck speed of computer development need to be taken into account. Not long before that computer networks were strictly corporate things installed by contractors choosing hardware, driver and software suppliers suitable for tasks performed by employees or students, and someone who installed it at home was the same kind of nerd who would drag an engine from the work into his room to tin…

> I wonder what Windows 11 installer does when there is no network card to phone home...

One of "works fine", "needs a command line trick to continue" or "refuses to work completely" depending on which specific edition of win11 your computer has been afflicted with.

Re: How Quake.exe got its TCP/IP stack

#116

Post by bombcar »

hylaride wrote: post #37
ec109685 wrote: post #35

This article makes it seems like 1996 was ancient times. There was the internet then, browsers, Mac’s had a tcp stack for a while by then, quake was an extremely advanced game. Yeah, the dos to windows transitions was a big deal, but it was a pretty ripe time for innovation then.

Yeah, but dial-up was slow, laggy, and what 95% of people used to access the internet in those days. Real-time gaming was not fun with anything that used it. I grew up in a rural area in the 1990s and was no match for people that started to get cable modems as time went on.

Even when people had dial-up, a huge majority were using portal-dialers like AOL or Compuserve, and it took extra steps to use those to "get" the Internet directly as opposed to within the walled garden.

And even then they'd often just use the bundled browser.

I remember the first friend who got a cable modem, that shit was insane compared to dial-up.

Re: How Quake.exe got its TCP/IP stack

#118

Post by bombcar »

skywal_l wrote: post #112
klaussilveira wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Andre Lamothe's "Tricks of the 3d Game Programming Gurus: Advanced 3d Graphics and Rasterization" is a great book for anyone interested in graphics programming from those days.

Also "The Black Book"[0] of Michael Abrash who worked on Quake with Carmack. [0]: https://www.amazon.fr/Michael-Abrashs-Graphics-Programming-S...

Which itself is the inspiration for the DooM/Wolf3d Black Books.

Re: How Quake.exe got its TCP/IP stack

#119

Post by pak9rabid »

hypercube33 wrote: post #6
sroussey wrote: post #3

I was half expecting something about how to get tcp into windows, but this is win95 where they shipped it inside the os and put some company out of business that used to sell that.

Didn't Win95 get tcp from FreeBSD?

Win95 had its own stack, codenamed Wolverine

Re: How Quake.exe got its TCP/IP stack

#120

Post by pak9rabid »

toast0 wrote: post #96
ipython wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Dialup has a ton of latency (100+ms), but little jitter.

If you're dialed up directly, you should be able to get a little bit better latency as you won't need IP, UDP, and PPP/SLIP headers; at modem bandwidth, header bytes add meaningful latency. But data transmission is still pretty slow, even with small packets.

Dialing-up a friend to play Quake, there essentially was no lag.

Dialing-up to the Internet to play Quake via TCP/IP...shit tons of lag (150+ ms).

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