When I think of insects, I see them as tiny microcontrollers. In my head bees have a little shift register to measure time. While ants have control over each limb, they mostly move by rotating two tripods one at a time. It's like they turn on an output for three legs, turn off the output, and then turn on the output for the other three legs. Ants can walk backward, though, so perhaps it is more like a half-bridge rec…
Working in embedded gave me a lot of respect for insects. They can fit so much raw function into a body that's smaller than most standalone ICs. Just imagine how cool would it be to have programmable bees.
Scientists now know that bees can process time, a first in insects
111–120 of 139 posts
Re: Scientists now know that bees can process time, a first in insects
#112Earlier quoted context omitted.
The hexagon is the best-agon
This thread is awesome. I had a miniature war with some wasps staking a claim on my porch Let me say, wasps are incredibly endurant creatures. I have much respect for them. Their architecture though... I have the remnants of their enclave. It is so stable and uniform and cozy. I wish wasps were friends.
Re: Scientists now know that bees can process time, a first in insects
#113A bunch of anecdotal evidence follows: There's this popular notion that humans are fundamentally different beings to everything else, which I believe is just a form of narcissism. If intelligence is used to navigate the world, then it is derived FROM the world, and your role is to be able to use those facts in your mind to change the world. I'm sure a wolf is as, or more, intelligent at surviving in the wild, with th…
In the same vein, I always wondered if * the vast majority (including me) are not really very intelligent. We have a lot of "state" that's transferred from generation to generation. Once in a while, a very small percentage of people make advances and they filter through society and improves (or maybe just changes) the state. We collectively gives humans credit for these improvements but it's not the species but those…
I have to quote one of my favorite thinkers here:
"Society does not consist of individuals but expresses the sum of interrelations, the relations within which these individuals stand." - K. Marx
This world knowledge is built upon piece by piece, the conceptual tools of the past create the conceptual tools of the future, that line is drawn through books and projected through minds, again onto books. This whole society depends deeply on cohesion and cultural continuation.
Our intellectual thread is the cultural knowledge and technological progress itself, its not even down to great individuals alone. I think believing in great individuals is a product of a sort of personality-fetishism (though individuals can do great things, if that makes sense).
This fetishism or mystification of the person who contributes I view as a product of an old frame of thinking which is called philosophical liberalism. This framework does this because it posits that all peoples exist under equal social value (political, legal and economical), thus people who contribute more must have a greater capacity that is innate and unexplainable or untraceable; inherent. Its a widespread philosophical frame of thought that does not consider the conditions of the individual.
We most see this employed with rich people. We hear they are truly great, savvy, exceptional individuals, when in reality a lot of the times the explanation for the vast majority of the rich is that they had rich parents. Where would you be if your parents owned an emerald mine? or Where would you be if your parents gave you a small loan of a million dollars?
In the same vein this human progress that we encounter, which seems to be carried on the backs of the Newtons and Einsteins of the world, is in fact a steady drip-feed of collective human knowledge that gets compiled and analyzed, made consistent and expounded upon by a few persons every certain amount of time. No lesser of a feat, mind you, the work is still there. I am not minimizing these persons, but contextualizing them.
[Insert the "on shoulders of giants" quote here]. Is a great example of humility and awareness by a visionary.
One thing I find impressive at times is the vast amount of German intellectuals throughout history, which upon looking at history can be explained by their colonial exploits leading to greater national wealth, leisure, and cultural amplification. This is often the case with Europe and the USA as well.
So there is a chance that we are all base-level intelligence, since we are all essentially the same species. What changes that is access to the cultural wealth of information, and not only access to this cultural wealth of information but a CULTURE OF ACCESS to that wealth of info. A level of social development around you that enables you.
People would rather immediately jump to physiological and even genetic explanations of intelligence rather than look at the social context of the individuals involved. This is because of the flaws of philosophical liberalism at contextualizing and actually scientifically looking at the world around us.
Again: there's a good chance that we are all just base level intelligence. What we know is actually different between us is the preparation and economic/social context of the individuals.
Re: Scientists now know that bees can process time, a first in insects
#114Earlier quoted context omitted.
Growing up on a farm taught me that animals are absolutely able to think and learn. Not in the same way as humans, but I'm fully convinced there are degrees of consciousness. Watching new calves play in spring meadows is one of the most purely joyful things you can ever see. They have best friends and will avoid playing with other calves until their friend comes to play with them.
Thanks for this memory. I had similar experience watching spring lambs and swore off mutton/lamb/etc same day.
Re: Scientists now know that bees can process time, a first in insects
#115Earlier quoted context omitted.
Animals also grieve and mourn their dead, much like we do. They are fellow sentient beings capable of experiencing pleasure, pain, fear, and forming social bonds. It's a lot of why I take issue with anthropocentrism, and think factory farming is an absolute tragedy. It's the industrialized denial of a meaningful life and one of the biggest examples of human cruelty.
I want to live, and think others do too- so Life must have some kind of Greater Meaning. Yet, almost everything else seems to prove the opposite based on how fragile life is, and how little things change when one is lost.
We're only given one chance; rich, poor, all of us. One shot. You have to try to do the best with what you have.
Nothing changes when you have a big loss, only if you let nothing change. My grandpa died at 102. He and Grandma raised me and were my rocks throughout my entire life. Grandma died when I was a teenager, and I only used that to become more sad and selfish (like a teenager). Looking back, the choices I made would've made her sad for me. When Grandpa died, I chose to use his memory to do good things. Now I volunteer with multiple organizations related to aging farmers. I gather stray old people from the area for weekend and holiday get togethers.
Things changed, and my life improved because of my response to loss. The memories are hard, but they're made easier in a community of people who can share them with me.
Re: Scientists now know that bees can process time, a first in insects
#116Earlier quoted context omitted.
I want to live, and think others do too- so Life must have some kind of Greater Meaning. Yet, almost everything else seems to prove the opposite based on how fragile life is, and how little things change when one is lost.
That's a very pessimistic was to view things, I think. We're only given one chance; rich, poor, all of us. One shot. You have to try to do the best with what you have. Nothing changes when you have a big loss, only if you let nothing change. My grandpa died at 102. He and Grandma raised me and were my rocks throughout my entire life. Grandma died when I was a teenager, and I only used that to become more sad and self…
> When Grandpa died, I chose to use his memory to do good things. Now I volunteer with multiple organizations related to aging farmers.
If this is what gives life meaning in the universe, you can’t deny that we’re snuffing it out at an industrial scale.
Re: Scientists now know that bees can process time, a first in insects
#117We are learning so many wonderful things about Bees! They can count https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21222227 Bees play https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33369572 https://www.science.org/content/article/are-these-bumble-bee... All of this reinforces my belief that nearly everything is conscious and aware, we differ in a capabilities and resolution but we are all more similar than we are different. Spider Cogni…
I promise this isn’t a trap, it’s just my curiosity as a “flexitarian”. What (mostly) keeps me from eating animals is my mind wandering sometimes when making a protein choice about how they ended up there, wherever I am, not by choice. Are you vegan?
I also keep my dietary preferences very low key. In a social setting, if I accidentally eat something I try and avoid, I don't make a fuss.
Re: Scientists now know that bees can process time, a first in insects
#118When I think of insects, I see them as tiny microcontrollers. In my head bees have a little shift register to measure time. While ants have control over each limb, they mostly move by rotating two tripods one at a time. It's like they turn on an output for three legs, turn off the output, and then turn on the output for the other three legs. Ants can walk backward, though, so perhaps it is more like a half-bridge rec…
I read a paper long ago (so there's no chance of my recalling the source!) and one of the takeaways was that in a cockroach one of the neural ganglia basically had a binary "run!" mode that was flipped on instantly if sense nerves very close to it were triggered. So when researchers tapped or blew air on the rears of the roaches the roach in question would sprint away, its powerful legs being efficiently driven at fu…
https://web.archive.org/web/20100612184109/https://nelson.be...
Neural Circuit Recording from an Intact Cockroach Nervous System https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC3969889/
Descending influences on escape behavior and motor pattern in the cockroach https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/11536194/
Multisensory control of escape in the cockroach Periplaneta americana https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/BF00192001
Re: Scientists now know that bees can process time, a first in insects
#119There should be a name for the tendency to of humans to discount the depth and sophistication of the subjective experience of animals. From insects to primates, it is so prevalent.
I don't think it's an innate tendency, but rather an aspect of some cultures. For instance, I have heard that the people native to orangutan ranges traditionally considered them to be a sort of people, at least in a way, and I've read that when Carthaginian explorers first encountered gorillas they though they were a peculiar tribe of primitive people.
Re: Scientists now know that bees can process time, a first in insects
#120Earlier quoted context omitted.
Chickens are very intelligent, it just happens that most people ever see chickens in overcrowded small spaces where they behave idiotically. So would you if you would be in the same situation.
I kept chickens for 15 years (mostly free-roaming in my backyard, unless there was a fox lurking, so not in overcrowded small spaces) and I disagree. To me they seemed pretty stupid, and pretty mean to one another
My favorite thing is them cooperating against a common enemy (a dog that was eating their food sometimes, which we've tried to mitigate but not being much successful).
Then once they had a discussion in the opposite corner about the problem and launched a stealth attack, covering themselves behind the trees while approaching the dog without the dog knowing it. Then once close enough they attacked from behind, the dog squeaked, more from the surprise than pain and since then the dog never touched their food again and avoided them.