And use American Cisco equipment with definitely no NSA backdoors instead?
The article states that they're pushing for independence from American tech as well
Germany to ban Huawei from future 6G network
111–120 of 179 posts
Re: Germany to ban Huawei from future 6G network
#112I don't get why Huawei gets specific hate? Shouldn't this equally apply to all Chinese vendors? I wouldn't expect any are less susceptible to government control?
Isn't the same true for American tech companies?
Re: Germany to ban Huawei from future 6G network
#113All this is because they're afraid $COUNTRY inserted malware in the chips, right? So industry can solve this. Make a device that has all the hardware for networks, but without the chip. Make a simple hardware standard for the chip interface. Publish the standard.
Now any country can make a chip that plugs into the networking device. Just buy your own country's spyware-laden chip, plug it into the NID. Install your software in the NID, the same way you'd install Linux on an AMD vs Intel computer. Works for PCs; it can work for routers (they're all just computers). Choose open source or an expensive proproprietary OS. Choose open hardware or proprietary hardware. Let people assemble them from parts so they can choose their level of surveillance-avoidance.
And you're done. No more banning entire manufacturers; just ban those specific kinds of chips, but buy the cheap chinese hardware sans-chips. Feels a lot more sustainable than global instability and trade wars over what is essentially just a lack of design.
(I'm aware how specialized router hw/sw is, I worked for Cisco once upon a time. but it can all be abstracted. it's just not in the interest of corporate profits to do so; but at this point, i think ramping down the china-phobia and stabilizing trade is a bigger concern)
Re: Germany to ban Huawei from future 6G network
#114Earlier quoted context omitted.
Both Nokia and Ericsson have substantial Blackrock and Vanguard investment.
blackrock and vanguard do index funds, yeah? They have substantial investments in everything on the market that's doing well enough to get on indexes. I don't see how you can avoid that?
Both Nokia and Ericson are owned over 10% by Blackrock+Vanguard
Re: Germany to ban Huawei from future 6G network
#115Amazing to read in a site full of devs and cybersecurity experts how willing they are to use Huawei's tech despite all the international theft and security issues, some exposed, and but most of it kept under wraps until investigations are complete.
And some even shill the conspiracy that the NSA will install backdoors in US equipment... I would like to think it's Chinese agents at work, but most likely it's regular people.
For this reason I'm glad politicians are taking the initiative, despite the population's awareness of what Huawei really is. And sry but I don't have time to "prove it with irrefutable evidence" as some may demand. Plz spend your own time researching the facts.
Re: Germany to ban Huawei from future 6G network
#116I feel that the majority in this thread are acting less in Europe's interests than effectively saying "fuck you" to Germany here for acting against China's interests. Or perhaps they're reaching as quickly as possible to blame everything on USA. But that's the consequence of letting outsiders into the conversation, everything has really turned into a "water armies", as defined by the Chinese themselves.
In any case, I do hope that outsiders in this thread realize this isn't indicative of what Westerners think, so as far much as what their enemies are thinking. Do you really think people like these who are so quick to mock Europe are really your friends?
Re: Germany to ban Huawei from future 6G network
#117Whose sovereignity though? And to replace it with what? As almost all 6G kit builds on 5G kit which is at most 40% Huawei FRAND patented.So whatever the path HW gets paid. As an aside the whole OpenRAN debacle to replcae 5G kit seems to have peterd out after the initial hype. This move also ignores economies of scale - if the rest of the planet is on HW kit lowerig cost even with razor thin margins.The opps Nokia/Eri…
> The Global Gateway funds to assist developing countries will come with ano HW clause.
So they only want to "save" the Planet and its (presumably poorer) people if said poorer people acquiesce with their imperialistic reflexes, tale as old as time when it comes to the West.
But not sure why would they need the Global South's money for all of this? Aren't they, the magnificent West, big enough to shoulder almost any costs? Especially when it comes to "strategic" concerns. Or so they were saying.
Re: Germany to ban Huawei from future 6G network
#118Whose sovereignity though? And to replace it with what? As almost all 6G kit builds on 5G kit which is at most 40% Huawei FRAND patented.So whatever the path HW gets paid. As an aside the whole OpenRAN debacle to replcae 5G kit seems to have peterd out after the initial hype. This move also ignores economies of scale - if the rest of the planet is on HW kit lowerig cost even with razor thin margins.The opps Nokia/Eri…
You don't need a crazy fast connection for most of this automation stuff, because it has to be able to operate offline successfully to start with. Any dark factory should be running on its own wireless network anyway, not some cellular network. Who would do that? Even for a local wireless network, why would a Huawei router be any better?
To me, this was never about 5G or 6G. This was always about CCP controlled network hardware getting installed across the globe taking advantage of a natural iterative next step in network improvement which would be fine if the CCP wasn't absolutely psycho and immoral, but they seem to be. I'm sure there are many well-meaning and smart people who work at Huawei, but unfortunately any advantage a Chinese company gets in a foreign market becomes potentially leveraged as CCP advantage and control.
Many countries leverage their companies abroad if something is important enough, but few countries are as bold or blatant as China in this regard. Nobody is worried about most of these countries excessively abusing their influence abroad, because most care about their reputation. China is basically untrusted by all of its neighbors and doesn't seem to care about authentic reputation over manipulation. To them, "harmony" just seems like a way to misspell "control". Balance to them means nothing if they aren't the center of gravity.
For as old and advanced as China has become, it discarded all of its slow wisdom to be wrong as fast as possible. Can a country like that really be trusted? No, it can't. There isn't any country on Earth that can be trusted 100%, but the CCP is just far below the threshold of even tolerable levels of trust.
There is nothing 5G or 6G provides that is worth letting the CCP control your networks. Aside from just spying or hacking, imagine World War 3 comes around and the CCP just decides it's time to shut off all our networks? Trust is almost always more important than speed.
Re: Germany to ban Huawei from future 6G network
#119The fundamental problem with the newer Huawei equipment is it's the best stuff. Others just aren't competing properly at all.
As the west detaches from China, for quite plausible security concerns, it's going to find it expensive on both ends: they will be paying more and getting less.
Re: Germany to ban Huawei from future 6G network
#120Whose sovereignity though? And to replace it with what? As almost all 6G kit builds on 5G kit which is at most 40% Huawei FRAND patented.So whatever the path HW gets paid. As an aside the whole OpenRAN debacle to replcae 5G kit seems to have peterd out after the initial hype. This move also ignores economies of scale - if the rest of the planet is on HW kit lowerig cost even with razor thin margins.The opps Nokia/Eri…
> The Global Gateway funds to assist developing countries will come with ano HW clause. So they only want to "save" the Planet and its (presumably poorer) people if said poorer people acquiesce with their imperialistic reflexes, tale as old as time when it comes to the West. But not sure why would they need the Global South's money for all of this? Aren't they, the magnificent West, big enough to shoulder almost any…
The way most of these deals get structured especially when multicorps get involved is requiring the donor gov to guarantee the loan. Which gets routed to the recepient country, kickbacks get shaved off and re-routed back to the donor country.
In this instance though my thinking is that for competeive pricing they would need volume , and prerequisite demand.
This would be one way to generate that demand.In a way similar to the whole Tariff circus just more upfront.