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Anthropic invests $50B in US AI infrastructure

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Re: Anthropic invests $50B in US AI infrastructure

#111

Post by runako »

shalmanese wrote: post #95
runako wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There should be a tenure element to power access. The reductio is a well-funded adversary should not be able to buy all the power in a region just because they are able to pay more. Our utilities are generally regulated, and have some mandate to provide power to residents. If a datacenter creates a sudden dislocation in the demand for power that causes massive unplanned CapEx by the utility, what is the argument in f…

> There should be a tenure element to power access. NIMBYism, but applied to grid power!

I actually think we should have more power plants, and we should generate a lot more power.

At the same time, it is not obvious that utility systems in communities are equipped to respond well to actors who are 1) not local 2) high growth 3) demand rapid deployment 4) are willing to spend flagrantly to move fast.

Put another way: should OpenAI be allowed to pay (say) 10x the going rate[1] for electricity in a region in exchange for being given the right to consume 90% of the electricity generated in that region? What principles should govern this balance and the acceptable price changes? How do those principles extend to determining who should cover CapEx for expansion? Does Texas need the 57 permanent jobs in Abilene that Stargate will generate so badly that millions of Texans should subsidize the richest startup ever?

1 - this is a hypothetical, but OpenAI's Stargate project in Texas is projected to cost multiples of the total assets of any of the large multi-state power generators in the country. None of the utilities are setup to engage with a buyer like that.

Re: Anthropic invests $50B in US AI infrastructure

#112

Post by [deleted] »

otterley wrote: post #103
runako wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There should be a tenure element to power access. The reductio is a well-funded adversary should not be able to buy all the power in a region just because they are able to pay more. Our utilities are generally regulated, and have some mandate to provide power to residents. If a datacenter creates a sudden dislocation in the demand for power that causes massive unplanned CapEx by the utility, what is the argument in f…

> There should be a tenure element to power access We have a tenure-based system for water rights in the Western US, and it's not without its problems. See, e.g., https://www.globalwaterforum.org/2022/11/03/the-paradox-of-u...

[deleted]

Re: Anthropic invests $50B in US AI infrastructure

#113

Post by JumpCrisscross »

catigula wrote: post #98
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> For $50 billion? It’s Capex. Most home construction produces less than a single permanent job on average.

Probably not the best idea rhetorically to pick something people literally require to live and compare it against AI spending to make your point.

> Probably not the best idea rhetorically to pick something people literally require to live and compare it against AI spending to make your point

Dams. Power plants. This isn't a difficult set to extend.

Re: Anthropic invests $50B in US AI infrastructure

#114

Post by joelthelion »

pama wrote: post #82
joelthelion wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If I read the data right (1) the US currently produces roughly 4,000 TWh of electricity every year. 500 TWh is a significant portion of that! The US will need a lot of additional capacity for things like electric cars and heat pumps. Most of the effort should be going towards that, not huge data centers attending to unproven demand (how many people will pay the real price for ChatGPT once the VC subsidy ends remains…

The sources for some of the future data centers will be local and not necessarily influence the US grid. Consider also that cement production uses about 3000 TWh per year worldwide, and aluminium smelting uses about 1000 TWh per year.

A lot of that cement production still uses fossil fuels.

In my mind, all the electricity production capacity we can build needs to go to the electrification of the existing economy, not new stuff and especially not the current brand of AI.

Re: Anthropic invests $50B in US AI infrastructure

#115

Post by JumpCrisscross »

runako wrote: post #110
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> should be a tenure element to power access What does this mean? > what is the argument in favor of longtime residents having to pay for that CapEx? Jobs and tax base. These benefit the middle class more than the poor, hence my redistribution proposal.

Data centers notoriously do not bring much in the way of either jobs or tax base. Meta's planned gigawatt-scale DC in Louisiana is projected to create ~500 jobs. If energy prices for the state increase by only 20%, that does not feel like something the people of the region would obviously want to do if given the choice.

> If energy prices for the state increase by only 20%

Are there forecasts energy prices will increase 20% long term?

Re: Anthropic invests $50B in US AI infrastructure

#116

Post by hattmall »

runako wrote: post #110
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> should be a tenure element to power access What does this mean? > what is the argument in favor of longtime residents having to pay for that CapEx? Jobs and tax base. These benefit the middle class more than the poor, hence my redistribution proposal.

Data centers notoriously do not bring much in the way of either jobs or tax base. Meta's planned gigawatt-scale DC in Louisiana is projected to create ~500 jobs. If energy prices for the state increase by only 20%, that does not feel like something the people of the region would obviously want to do if given the choice.

I don't understand why the energy rates for residents should go up at all? Why isn't the data center paying for it? Even my personal bill gets more expensive per kwh the more I use, shouldn't a data center using exponentially more power just pay a higher per kwh rate, honestly to the point that they are making it cheaper for normal customers??

Re: Anthropic invests $50B in US AI infrastructure

#117

Post by testing22321 »

theultdev wrote: post #107
triceratops wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Aah a True Bird Lover. Wants to protect birds from windmills. Doesn't care how many bird habitats oil drilling destroys. Hasn't seen any pictures of oil coated birds from the Exxon Valdez or the Deepwater Horizon . > made out of unrecyclable polymers Does this mean you support banning plastic straws too? All plastics are essentially unrecyclable. > Our kids deserve nuclear. By all means. If it can be done as cheaply…

> Aah a True Bird Lover. You don't know me, but yes birds are a passion of mine. I don't particularly like drilling oils and we should transition off. Does that justify the damage windmills do? No. > Does this mean you support banning plastic straws too? All plastics are essentially unrecyclable. https://s7d1.scene7.com/is/image/CENODS/10027-cover-casper-o... I support as little waste as possible. Everything adds up.…

New Nuclear is by far the most expensive way to generate power today. It gets worse everyday.

Re: Anthropic invests $50B in US AI infrastructure

#118

Post by LunaSea »

gowld wrote: post #92
LunaSea wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Unfortunately our skies and land are littered with windmills made out of unrecyclable polymers that are terrible for raptors. Like our lands and oceans are not littered with drilling platforms and fracking stations already

non-responsive to the parent comment. Oil is not nuclear.

Incorrect, parent comment mentioned gas.

Re: Anthropic invests $50B in US AI infrastructure

#119

Post by KaiserPro »

DANmode wrote: post #69
KaiserPro wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Less impulse, more "oh we expected that we'd get more return". We have a project at the moment thats all based around sharepoint. They have ingested many tens of thousands of documents, and are expecting that MS copilot studio will be able to a) RAG and B) produce meaningful answers with a 4 line prompt.

Does it take more than a quarter or two to figure that out?

Thats my point right? you get monthly billing, look at the curve and go "oops thats not good"

And then cut spending. The point is, run-rate revenue, which is extrapolated rather than _actual_ can easily mask this change, depending on how its calculated.

Re: Anthropic invests $50B in US AI infrastructure

#120

Post by port11 »

keeganpoppen wrote: post #59
cowpig wrote: post #11

> Today, we are announcing a $50 billion investment in American computing infrastructure > The project will create approximately 800 permanent jobs Approximately $62.5 million per permanent job created!

but it’s private money? who gives a fuck about the $/job created? if anything, it’s a good thing that Anthropic can afford to do it because they can so efficiently use capital. at least, so far…

I think GP is criticising how ‘wasteful’ that is compared to better uses of the money in $/employee. It's really not creating that many jobs for the amount of cash we're talking about.
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