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US air traffic controllers start resigning as shutdown bites

thedailybeast.com

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Re: US air traffic controllers start resigning as shutdown bites

#111

Post by mathgeek »

slg wrote: post #73
Waterluvian wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The sooner things become intolerably broken in the U.S. the better off I think the rest of the world is. The U.S. kind of scares me right now. So much power, wielded by deeply incompetent, broken, and evil people. And those who aren't those things are demonstrably too weak to do anything about it. I have a sense that things will only improve once they hit an intolerable low. And the longer it takes for that to happen…

I can't deny that and maybe would even agree with that as an abstract theory, but I just can't stomach the amount of misery and death that would come along with this to ever use a word like "hope" to describe that outcome.

I don’t know if it’s reasonable or not to wish that, as an analogy, the German people had started a true civil war with the Nazis when they seized power. I can see how folks would wonder though.

Re: US air traffic controllers start resigning as shutdown bites

#112

Post by krisoft »

tayo42 wrote: post #22
8note wrote: post #8

why are traffic controllers government employees at all? wouldn't it be better for the government to maintain a standards/licensing body and only have a couple on staff as a "traffic controllers of last resort" during emergencies? when an traffic controller quits, what job can they go to? clearly not another airport

Why would it be better to have this job be driven by profit? It's a service provided to the public. Seems like a natural fit for being run by government. The only thing is this funding situation for this government is dumb. Otherwise we wouldn't be talking about it.

> It's a service provided to the public. Seems like a natural fit for being run by government.

I don't understand this part of your reasoning. It sounds like you are saying it is a service provided to the public therefore it is a natural fit for being run by the government. Do I understand your reasoning right?

Because if so: A lot of services are provided to the public. For example baking bread. Should every baker be a government employee?

Re: US air traffic controllers start resigning as shutdown bites

#113

Post by actionfromafar »

noir_lord wrote: post #106
pwthornton wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

22 million Americans benefit from the Affordable Care Act subsidies. I hardly think it is just some small number of socialists who care about this.

42 million on SNAP as well. It’s tempting to assume they have a plan because we project rationality but I don’t think they do beyond chaos and hurt the people they don’t like.

The plan is to make the midterms a Republican offer you can’t refuse, so to speak. One thing on the menu or the count, at least. Or something to similar effect. Why swear in any democrat in the house at all?

They are antifa, that’s terrorists you know.

Re: US air traffic controllers start resigning as shutdown bites

#114

Post by nakamoto_damacy »

Elon Musk will step in to save the day and privatize air traffic control. The government will transform the nation into a fully decentralized economy owned and operated by oligarchs, with the role of the government shrinking to that of a mediator between the various oligarchs, and employed directly by the oligarchs. Kind of like how they describe it in the sci-fi show Alien Earth.

Re: US air traffic controllers start resigning as shutdown bites

#115

Post by rainsford »

e40 wrote: post #3

Remember, the pain this is causing everyone means less to the people in power than does the benefits of this shutdown (to them). We can argue about what those benefits are all day long, but they wouldn't be refusing to have discussions with the Dems if there were not some benefit, be it political power they can wield, or whatever.

The problem is that it's existential for both Democrats and Republicans. Given the current makeup of the federal government, Republicans basically have all the power and have been able to leverage that into spending the last 10 months doing whatever they want. The exception to that power is the Democrats' ability to filibuster in the Senate and shut down the government by not agreeing to whatever the Republicans put forward.

The actual demands I think are essentially irrelevant. If Republicans give up anything to the Democrats, the spell of the last 10 months is broken and Republicans can no longer unilaterally control the direction of government. If Democrats don't get any concessions, they're essentially irrelevant for the next 14 months and that only changes if they win either the House or Senate in 2026. Given that, it's not obvious how this ends.

Re: US air traffic controllers start resigning as shutdown bites

#116

Post by paulryanrogers »

pkulak wrote: post #70
fzeroracer wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, there's one critical flaw which is that Trump is also fucking up with the military. A lot of military members are going unpaid, and many more are going unpaid and their family isn't receiving snap benefits. An authoritarian trying to seize power without the backing of the military is bound to lead to failure, and even though money is being funneled into ICE enmasse they're an untrained legion of goons with litt…

Didn’t they illegally take funds from the CIA to pay the military and ICE? It seems to me like this is ideal for them. They break the law to pay for the stuff they want, let everything else rot. Why the Democrats have allowed this is beyond me.

> Why the Democrats have allowed this is beyond me.

Republicans control all three branches of government. What can Democrats do except filibuster and budgetary maneuvers like they're already doing?

Democrats already tried (briefly) going along with the inhumane BBB and Republicans kept cutting and disregarding the law anyway.

Re: US air traffic controllers start resigning as shutdown bites

#117

Post by tonetheman »

blensor wrote: post #77
koolba wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

Since the democrats are not the ones in power at the moment, don't they have the bigger obligation towards the position of the people who voted for them. Which would be exactly the demand they are making right now. The party who is running the country does in theory have an obligation to all Americans, the opposition has an obligation to their own block.

The Republicans are literally starving poor people. People who are on SNAP who have less than 3k in their bank accounts.

Hateful and incompetent is how most people would describe that.

Re: US air traffic controllers start resigning as shutdown bites

#118

Post by unethical_ban »

ecshafer wrote: post #69
jacquesm wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You have your parties muddled up. The democrats are not in power.

Republicans could end filibuster, true. That would probably be bad. Republicans dont have a filibuster proof majority, they need to negotiate. Democrats are dying on this one hill which is not a good idea that has little benefit https://www.jec.senate.gov/public/index.cfm/republicans/news...

Republicans could decide not to cut health care funding too. Both sides own the shutdown, now ask which side should give in and why.

Re: US air traffic controllers start resigning as shutdown bites

#119

Post by actionfromafar »

crikeykangaroo wrote: post #93
Waterluvian wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The sooner things become intolerably broken in the U.S. the better off I think the rest of the world is. The U.S. kind of scares me right now. So much power, wielded by deeply incompetent, broken, and evil people. And those who aren't those things are demonstrably too weak to do anything about it. I have a sense that things will only improve once they hit an intolerable low. And the longer it takes for that to happen…

I completely agree. It's a good thing we're in a multipolar world now. The US (and its vassal states) have ruled terribly and the world suffered much over it. Sadly, there is still a lot of propaganda that needs to go away. A great world leader would spread genuine peace. Not corrupt other countries, start wars and shed blood. The USA has failed to even keep its own citizens safe and secure. All I worry about is that…

So how can you completely agree if even you worry?

I worry more. I am certain, for all bad things the US did, the multipolar world will be much much worse. You think the other power players are better? No way.

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