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Vacuum bricked after user blocks data collection – user mods it to run anyway

tomshardware.com

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Re: Vacuum bricked after user blocks data collection – user mods it to run anyway

#111

Post by amelius »

blueboo wrote: post #64
ethin wrote: post #62

IMO a company should lose all control over technology once you've purchased it. Doesn't matter if it's "smart" or not. If the company wants to do something like telemetry, they can buy a license from you for that data. See how they like it when the tables are flipped.

Can't you trivially reframe the initial purchase as being subsidized by that license? Your $200 smart knife sharpener would be $300 if it weren't recording audio 24/7 (for VAD, surely!) I don't like it either but here we are

Yes, but then it should be sold as such.

If you're buying a service and not a product, then the consumer has a right to know!

Re: Vacuum bricked after user blocks data collection – user mods it to run anyway

#114

Post by hobs »

GJim wrote: post #105
immibis wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They should be forced to present both options, and the price difference must equal the revenue they actually make from spying.

Once again, I'm amazed some HN readers, like yourself, are unfamiliar with the basic tenets of the GDPR. (Hint: A company cannot provide a service on the condition that you provide unnecessary personal data or consent to spying) If you work in a tech field, there is simply no reason for such ignorance.

The GDPR doesn't impact a lot of companies, if you are acting on behalf of a customer who is the actual data processor for instance.

Re: Vacuum bricked after user blocks data collection – user mods it to run anyway

#115

Post by smt88 »

godelski wrote: post #75
blueboo wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can't you trivially reframe the initial purchase as being subsidized by that license? Your $200 smart knife sharpener would be $300 if it weren't recording audio 24/7 (for VAD, surely!) I don't like it either but here we are

I think you frame it that way you need to offer the other version. I do wonder how many people would buy non-spy versions of devices given the option. More specifically, what that differential in price would be too. At worst it would be interesting to have a price explicitly stating what our data is worth. Many people actually internalize that it's not that valuable, but doing this would make it explicit.

> I do wonder how many people would buy non-spy versions of devices given the option.

Depending on the discount for the spyware version, I'd guess close to zero. The general public has become completely numb to being spied on. It's hard to get someone to give up $50 (a real cost) for something nebulous like "very slightly less of your life is known by marketing companies".

Re: Vacuum bricked after user blocks data collection – user mods it to run anyway

#116

Post by StarGrit »

erinnh wrote: post #108
StarGrit wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But the cleaners do more than the floors. Vacuuming takes me about 20 minutes once a week. I don't really see the point when I live in a 2 bed apartment.

If 20 minutes is all you need once a week, yeah it maybe doesnt make sense for you. I have a dog and need to vacuum at least once a day, currently. Without a robot vacuum, Id go crazy.

Ok fair enough.

Re: Vacuum bricked after user blocks data collection – user mods it to run anyway

#117

Post by noir_lord »

When smart devices started becoming common I looked at them and made the decision that it was a hard no from me - I didn't trust that they'd secure the data properly, I didn't trust the privacy aspect and I really didn't trust that they'd continue to support the product for the life of the hardware.

Here we are 10-15 years later and I see no reason to change that view in the slightest.

It surprises the none-techies I know that I don't have any smart devices in my home because they assume I would been a computer geek but its because I'm a computer geek that I don't.

My hoover is a switch connected to an electric motor, I can service it with a phillips screwdriver.

Even my TV is just a fedora box connected to a regular Samsung TV (which has never been on the network and never will).

Re: Vacuum bricked after user blocks data collection – user mods it to run anyway

#118

Post by ethin »

devn0ll wrote: post #89
blueboo wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can't you trivially reframe the initial purchase as being subsidized by that license? Your $200 smart knife sharpener would be $300 if it weren't recording audio 24/7 (for VAD, surely!) I don't like it either but here we are

I do not think the value difference is $100 ;-) In fact, the longer you use it, the more money they can make off of you. (In that sense, that $200 is already WAY too expensive to start ;-) ) So yeah, reversing this would make the most sense. The default is: local data only and not connected. They need to pay me to get data. Just like car companies, phones, etc, should be forced to do that as well.

Yes. That's what my comment was getting at.

And no, they shouldn't be allowed to set the price. If I buy a license from Steam, I can't name my price, so I don't see why these companies should either. If they want my data, then they'll either pay the money I demand or they won't get the data at all. Cutthroat, perhaps, but necessary.

Re: Vacuum bricked after user blocks data collection – user mods it to run anyway

#119

Post by michalhosna »

witx wrote: post #106
brenainn wrote: post #41

A good time to point out https://github.com/Hypfer/Valetudo . I haven't tried it personally because my particular model of vacuum has some complicated and potentially destructive procedure to get the required access, but there's quite a few models where it can be installed easily.

From my understanding (I might be wrong) the images are pre-built by the owner of the project right? I remember there being a form you fill and you receive a download link. If that's the case what guarantees do I have there's no "funny business" on the image?

You can then cut the robot off the internet completely.

Which you cant do with the 1st party apps. This alone is enough for me.

The private builder is not great, but the reason are understandable, it is what it is.

Re: Vacuum bricked after user blocks data collection – user mods it to run anyway

#120

Post by dugite-code »

StarGrit wrote: post #73
bastawhiz wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When I bought my Roomba in 2013, it cost as much total as I pay my cleaning ladies to come once every two weeks. If your floors get dirty easily, it's not really going to get them spotless, but it'll get them far cleaner than they'd otherwise be.

But the cleaners do more than the floors. Vacuuming takes me about 20 minutes once a week. I don't really see the point when I live in a 2 bed apartment.

I was surprised to discover that if you run the robot vac once a day or even every second day it significantly reduces the amount of dust that ends up on other surfaces.

You just schedule it and forget it. As everyone says it doesn't do as good of a job as you do but the main benifit is it's consistent about doing that job more frequently.

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