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Poison, Poison Everywhere

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Re: Poison, Poison Everywhere

#111

Post by jimnotgym »

>Is the furniture I sit in every day made with harmful substances?

If I made you a chair out of wood and finished it with pure linseed oil, do you promise not to complain that it needs repainting regularly? If I make you a cushion out of horse hair and canvas, do you promise not to complain that it is uncomfortable and not flame retardant? Will you be ok that you can't wipe off stains like you could with your old one?

The convenience of modern materials is what drives this, as much as the profit motive

Re: Poison, Poison Everywhere

#112

Post by Cthulhu_ »

bad_username wrote: post #87
teddyh wrote: post #6

Empowering individuals to solve collective problems rarely work. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31178680 > The appropriate solution is legislation.

This mindset is dangerous - "weak individuals, you better let the strong benevolent government solve your problems". The appropriate solution is legislation AND individual empowerment.

But also education; one major shift is that measures that were taken in the past (e.g. vaccination campaigns) were so successful that a generation or three of people have grown up without any of the vaccinated diseases, so now they're like "...why do we even need these?". Add some scaremongering of chemicals and demonizing of autism aaand there's epidemics of measles again.

Re: Poison, Poison Everywhere

#113

Post by Cthulhu_ »

Ferret7446 wrote: post #88
nbngeorcjhe wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

No amount of legislation will make it practical to do comprehensive chemical tests on every single domestic and imported product, or do comprehensive safety studies on every single chemical used in such products, or to handle the legal proceedings to prosecute all violations. Our society does not have the resources to sustain the incomprehensibly large regulatory and compliance industry needed to enforce a shadow of…

Counterpoint: yeah we do, we're already doing it.

Of course, not everything has to be tested every time, that's where certifications come in - get your stuff tested when you first want to import something, get a certificate, don't need to get it tested again every time. But if you fail a spot check you lose the certificate and import righs.

Re: Poison, Poison Everywhere

#114

Post by Cthulhu_ »

margalabargala wrote: post #70
teddyh wrote: post #6

Empowering individuals to solve collective problems rarely work. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31178680 > The appropriate solution is legislation.

I disagree with this. There are plenty of counterexamples where an individual can have a measurably positive impact on their own life. Solar + batteries comes to mind. Also in your linked example, you brought up reading and literacy as something that would not improve collective problems, and I couldn't disagree more.

Unfortunately, individual action doesn't have significant effects - the article mentions leaded fuels, that wasn't something that could be done by individuals alone. You mention solar + batteries but to be blunt, that's only something middle class homeowners can afford, and they're a minority. Maybe some landlords in housing projects but they want government funding for that.

Re: Poison, Poison Everywhere

#115

Post by philipp-gayret »

gambiting wrote: post #101
Flere-Imsaho wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sounds interesting. I heard about oat's ability to absorb nasty stuff in the gut for awhile. However, in the UK oats are dried out using glyphosate...a known carcinogen! Feels like modern society makes it nearly impossible to not be exposed to harmful substances...so I hope you're successful.

The whole point of glyphosate is that it deteriorates very very quickly, and your oats should contain exactly zero of it. Obviously that's the theory, I'd love someone to test it. But in US wheat is routinely dessicated with glyphosate so either their bread is giving everyone cancer, or the compound does actually break down as expected. Or maybe it's somewhere in between. Either way, it's like the article said - it's…

What is "very very quickly"?

From Wikipedia:

> The reported half-life of glyphosate in soil varies from two to 197 days with a typical field half-life of 47 days being suggested.[56] Soil and climate conditions affect glyphosate's persistence in soil. The median half-life of glyphosate in water varies from a few days to 91 days.[56] At a site in Texas, half-life was as little as three days. A site in Iowa had a half-life of 141.9 days.[94] The glyphosate metabolite AMPA has been found in Swedish forest soils up to two years after a glyphosate application.

It has a lower half-life in water, and a lower half-life when it's warmer. I store my oats both dry and cold.

As for cancer, I don't know - but it certainly is giving everyone parkinsons.

Re: Poison, Poison Everywhere

#116

Post by Cthulhu_ »

noduerme wrote: post #46

Amazon is so completely irresponsible for their marketplace that recently, shopping for a glass oral thermometer (because the digital ones suck) I stumbled on reviews with photos showing products that had no mercury inside and actual blobs of mercury stuck to the tip that goes in your mouth. These were still for sale. I feel like even 10 years ago, online marketplaces would have taken measures to prevent stuff like t…

I've thought about that too, but in the end, price always wins - this is why the Amazons and Walmarts of the world have out-competed local small businesses.

The major flaw in your example is that you have a site saying product X is good and trusted, but people will then go look online for a competitor that sells it for cheaper.

This is where capitalism clashes with consumer rights / safety. What should be the case is that all products sold on all stores are safe. That's what consumer safety organizations are for, but it seems like they have lost the battle against the flood of Chinese crap coming in.

At least in Europe, this is mainly because these companies ship for cheap directly to customers. Customs and the like can check a container full of the same USB chargers easily and efficiently, but if that container full crosses the border in 10.000 individual packages it's impossible.

Thankfully they're putting the brakes on it, but it took forever.

Re: Poison, Poison Everywhere

#117

Post by jimnotgym »

lou1306 wrote: post #110
tasuki wrote: post #108

Don't forget the poisons we've known for ages and yet overconsume: sugar, alcohol, ...

Those are regulated, and sold to willing customers. On the other hand, people who buy paint do not want to get lead-poisoned, usually.

And they are just waiting for the modern paint to be as good as the old lead paint was on exterior woodwork.

Re: Poison, Poison Everywhere

#118

Post by tasuki »

avidiax wrote: post #105
IlikeKitties wrote: post #66

> All the exhaust fumes pooled and hung in the air there. And these were the 1970s: literally all the gasoline was leaded.1 This was lead poisoning. Over the years, the children were getting brain damage. And if you live in a city today it's only marginally better. Remember that everyone selfishly driving their car is choosing to poison you rather than dealing with public transport. They give you lung cancer from the…

The prisoner isn't a horrible human because he solves his dilemma by defecting.

Disagreed.

For me, I make a conscious attempt not to use a car unless it's actually warranted. I often go weeks without driving at all. Many people have the opposite approach: they take every possible opportunity to drive.

Re: Poison, Poison Everywhere

#119

Post by globular-toast »

noduerme wrote: post #46

Amazon is so completely irresponsible for their marketplace that recently, shopping for a glass oral thermometer (because the digital ones suck) I stumbled on reviews with photos showing products that had no mercury inside and actual blobs of mercury stuck to the tip that goes in your mouth. These were still for sale. I feel like even 10 years ago, online marketplaces would have taken measures to prevent stuff like t…

Amazon is rather like the Silk Road[0] of old. You're buying cinnamon from some guy in Europe who knows not even the vague direction it came from, let alone what's in it or how it came to be. This could be considered irresponsible today, or it could be considered efficient, depending on your perspective.

I also feel like Amazon should take more responsibility, but then I get angry when my ISP or government "takes responsibility" for online content. What's the difference between Amazon and an ISP? One could argue an ISP is a natural monopoly and therefore should always be a neutral carrier. But maybe Amazon is a natural monopoly too? Could the economy really support ten different Amazons? That would be like having ten different Silk Roads, but there's only one way from Asia to Europe.

It does seem odd to me that Amazon gets a free pass as a common carrier while ISPs seemingly do not. Probably because taking responsibility would affect Amazon's bottom line, while ISPs don't really care.

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silk_Road (The ancient trading route, not the darknet marketplace).

Re: Poison, Poison Everywhere

#120

Post by lccerina »

weregiraffe wrote: post #78

What's worse, damage from lead or damage from constant obsession about lead?

Damage from lead. The 'obsession' here is that the right level of lead in any product should be ZERO. There should be international pacts, like what was done for gases destroying the ozone layer, to remove lead entirely from products
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