Meeting A Troll • Hacker News Board

Re: Meeting A Troll

#111

Post by LordIllidan » Tue, Sep 25, 2012, 7:17 AM UTC

freework wrote: post #92

Theres something about this story that just doesn't sit right with me. Why would a 17 year old go through so much trouble to harass someone just for the heck of it? The guy had to have done something to the kid. Normal people don't spend hours of their lives to harass a single person for no reason. I call bullshit.

The son had become engrossed with conspiracy sites - the ones that blame jews/zionists/everyone for all the ills on the planet, and was a shutin, unable to attach a human face with the victim of his trolling attempts.

I admire the author for his actions, I hope the Troll will take a good lesson from it all.

Re: Meeting A Troll

#112

Post by wisty » Tue, Sep 25, 2012, 7:17 AM UTC

zxcdw wrote: post #31

citricsquid wrote: post #22

that is not "trolling", that's (pretty bad) harassment. I get the feeling this is a story written to prove a point. Nobody would refer to this as "trolling".

How would you define trolling and a troll? I'm sincerely asking since it is my understanding that these days harassment over the internet is often cited as trolling, as in for example "We trolled Jane by spamming her inbox full of animal abuse and violence lol". I work part-time at a school with kids ranging from 7 to 16, and of what I've tried to inquire them about the subject(I'm 22 myself, so it's quite easy to go…

The original meaning of "trolling" comes from the fishing technique. It's not targeted, it's just provocation. Trolls might follow up, and target the people who took the bait (getting them more riled up, misinterpreting them, claiming they misinterpreted your point, accusing them of trolling), but they don't tend to hold a grudge. It's just a (juvenile) joke.

Harassment isn't trolling. It's goal is not provoking anyone who is un-savvy enough to take the bait, it's goal is to upset a specific person. It's harassment.

You're right that trolling means whatever people want it to (words mean whatever you think they do), but if you expand the definition "trolling" to include harassment, then it's no longer fair to say it's "just" trolling; under the assumption that "trolling" isn't a bad thing.

Re: Meeting A Troll

#113

Post by ripperdoc » Tue, Sep 25, 2012, 7:19 AM UTC

unreal37 wrote: post #44

Interesting. I don't think I would have done the same, and even with time to think long and hard about it, I still would have gone after him with all my might. I don't think letting him off with just a warning is in any sense "justice" nor in the end was the smart choice. There's something psychotic about harassing someone you know for YEARS, anonymously, in such a vicious way as he did. It's just cruelty on a level…

Well, we don't know enough about this case to really judge it. But my key take away is NOT that this kid is a future murderer, but rather the opposite, that internet harassment is something very different than real harassment, something normal people can get into, somewhere where it's too easy to disconnect emotionally from the target and the suffering of the target. The kid may not have been able to visualize the suffering that he caused, getting de-sensitized to the words and images used in the harassment (you don't need to stay long in 4chan for that to happen). Of course, it doesn't make it more ok, it just means we shouldn't use the same ruler to measure internet harassment as real harassment.

Re: Meeting A Troll

#114

Post by Tichy » Tue, Sep 25, 2012, 7:23 AM UTC

ary wrote: post #53

It's difficult to read this and not think that a psychopath was let off the hook because he was young. Outing and labeling these kinds of people is important to curbing the amount of future damage they can do. There is bullying, there is harassment, and then there is what the OP experienced. No reasonable, rational individual who is just "acting out" in adolescence takes it to these levels. As much as I feel for the…

Maybe you underestimate how charged today's atmosphere is. You get confronted with things like this every day - violence in the media, news, school yard, newspapers, books, video games. Peer pressure and what not. Kids beating each other up, filming it and putting it on YouTube.

I don't know if that kid is a psychopath but I can imagine lots of other reasons for how he got caught up in that "game".

Also I am not even sure about the psychopath verdict - I get that differences in the brain have been found (ie underdeveloped regions responsible for empathy). But that doesn't imply that it is genetic/not curable. I've read the same brain structures have been found in abused children, for example. And the famous London cab drivers with their enlarged brain regions for geo-spatial-whatever-things. They certainly were not born to be cab drivers - so if their behavior can make brain regions grow, why shouldn't it be possible to learn more empathy?

Re: Meeting A Troll

#115

Post by Tichy » Tue, Sep 25, 2012, 7:24 AM UTC

ary wrote: post #98

enneff wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What would you recommend for this kid, apart from counseling?

I'll speak for myself, as if I had a child that acted in this way. The first, and most important response would be to establish why . With actions like this being carried out in and from my own home I would have to immediately reassess my level of involvement with my child and whether or not I was culpable via omission. Very soon thereafter I would seek out the advice of people directly involved with the study and tr…

He did demand that they go to counseling with the kid.

Re: Meeting A Troll

#116

Post by Tichy » Tue, Sep 25, 2012, 7:26 AM UTC

muhuk wrote: post #67

zainny wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And your implication that a "loving community" can wave a magic wand and make this sick adult better is equally incorrect. I would suggest in fact that some of the signs this troubled individual would behave in this manner were probably already apparent to his parents, but they chose to dismiss it because no parent really believes their own child can be capable of such horrible behaviour. This is a person that needs…

I would probably do the same thing, I would probably not report the child of my friend to authorities. But looking at this as a third person; I think he got away too easily. He did something evil, he got caught and what are the consequences? A slap on the wrist.

If he has any connection to his parents at all, the embarrassment of being outed in front of his parents might be more than just a slap on the wrist.

Also, is this the "an eye for an eye" theory of justice? Personally I hope that my kid will behave in a good way because he considers it the right thing to do, not because he is afraid of punishment.

Re: Meeting A Troll

#117

Post by yread » Tue, Sep 25, 2012, 7:54 AM UTC

wamatt wrote: post #85

ary wrote: post #53

It's difficult to read this and not think that a psychopath was let off the hook because he was young. Outing and labeling these kinds of people is important to curbing the amount of future damage they can do. There is bullying, there is harassment, and then there is what the OP experienced. No reasonable, rational individual who is just "acting out" in adolescence takes it to these levels. As much as I feel for the…

As much as I loathe being the guy defending trolls, the level of judgement expressed in this thread is a bit troubling. Labeling this kid a 'pyschopath' might feel nice, but it's rather inaccurate. [1]. Specifically when he saw the damage he'd caused, a very human emotional response of remorse and regret kicked in. We have no reason to believe it's fake, especially given we weren't the one's there, and the author bel…

You can read more about the value of tears of a psychopath here

http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/assessment/2...

Harris married his deceitfulness with a total lack of remorse or empathy—another distinctive quality of the psychopath. Fuselier was finally convinced of his diagnosis when he read Harris' response to being punished after being caught breaking into a van. Klebold and Harris had avoided prosecution for the robbery by participating in a "diversion program" that involved counseling and community service. Both killers feigned regret to obtain an early release, but Harris had relished the opportunity to perform. He wrote an ingratiating letter to his victim offering empathy, rather than just apologies. Fuselier remembers that it was packed with statements like Jeez, I understand now how you feel and I understand what this did to you.

"But he wrote that strictly for effect," Fuselier said. "That was complete manipulation. At almost the exact same time, he wrote down his real feelings in his journal: 'Isn't America supposed to be the land of the free? How come, if I'm free, I can't deprive a stupid f---ing dumbshit from his possessions if he leaves them sitting in the front seat of his f---ing van out in plain sight and in the middle of f---ing nowhere on a Frif---ingday night. NATURAL SELECTION. F---er should be shot.' "

Re: Meeting A Troll

#118

Post by yelsgib » Tue, Sep 25, 2012, 8:02 AM UTC

minitrollster wrote: post #105

yelsgib wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Who do you trust to administer punishment? What did they do to earn that trust? The concept that one class of humans is the "punishers" who are teaching the other class(es) underlies most (if not all) fascist/authoritarian/racist ideologies of the last 3 centuries. Of course you don't see what's wrong with punishing behavior that has been deemed unacceptable by society. Unfortunately, behavior that society is largely…

>The concept that one class of humans is the "punishers" who are teaching the other class(es) underlies most (if not all) fascist/authoritarian/racist ideologies of the last 3 centuries. So I'm Hitler now. >legalize drugs and prostitution and 99% of these problems go away. Seriously?

I don't feed trolls.

Re: Meeting A Troll

#119

Post by mike-cardwell » Tue, Sep 25, 2012, 8:27 AM UTC

dean wrote: post #77

That's not a troll. And that's not harassment. That's a stalker. I'm shocked Twitter did nothing about this kind of repeated targeted abuse. And I'm very surprised that the police did nothing for someone who was receiving death threats at his front door.

The bit about the police not being "able" to do anything struck me as a bit bizarre as well...

"I got on to the authorities again but, polite and sympathetic as they were, there didn't seem much that could be done."

Err... Death threat... Contact Twitter and get the IP address of the user, then contact the ISP to get the home address.

Maybe the police couldn't be "bothered" to do anything, but they were certainly capable of it.

Re: Meeting A Troll

#120

Post by ErrantX » Tue, Sep 25, 2012, 8:37 AM UTC

ary wrote: post #53

It's difficult to read this and not think that a psychopath was let off the hook because he was young. Outing and labeling these kinds of people is important to curbing the amount of future damage they can do. There is bullying, there is harassment, and then there is what the OP experienced. No reasonable, rational individual who is just "acting out" in adolescence takes it to these levels. As much as I feel for the…

I think the OP opted for the latter ("credible mental health professional") when demanding counselling, but left off the former ("legal action").

I tend to agree with him, and I think in a way you are too... the important issue might not be in making him pay for his harassment, but understanding how and why he did those things (and then treating him if needed).

Criminalising him adds.. what?