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MinIO stops distributing free Docker images

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Re: MinIO stops distributing free Docker images

#111

Post by ryanjshaw »

Tepix wrote: post #12

It's an Open Source project - I don't understand what people are complaining about. Noone is entitled to receive free Docker images. I'm sure if there is enough demand, someone else who is trustworthy will step up and automate building them. What I'd like to complain about instead is the pricing page on the Min.io webpage - it doesn't list any pricing. Looking at https://cloudian.com/blog/minios-ui-removal-leaves-org…

> I don't understand what people are complaining about

Talk is cheap. People will complain about something they’re not legally entitled to because there’s no downside, only an upside if the company backtracks.

In the background they are probably creating tickets to mitigate the risk if the complaining doesn’t work. It’s perfectly rational.

I don’t understand the people who don’t understand this.

Re: MinIO stops distributing free Docker images

#112

Post by jraph »

cies wrote: post #108
jraph wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To me, there are two aspects: - if you rely on something, you should make sure you can reasonably rely on it (indeed, for instance by paying someone) - if you provide something, even for free, you should expect people will rely on it and you shouldn't pull the plug overnight if you can help it (of course, if you run out of business or something bad happens to you, that's something else). There is some kind of implici…

> if you provide something, even for free, you should expect people will rely on it and you shouldn't pull the plug overnight if you can help it Do you know their reasons for discontinuing? Are you even entitled to know that? It's their private matter. > of course, if you run out of business or something bad happens to you, that's something else Huh? So now everyone should let you know "it was out of their hands"? Yo…

Hey, tone down, please. Also, have you, for some reason, totally missed the first point in my comment?

> Do you know their reasons for discontinuing? Are you even entitled to know that? It's their private matter.

Fully addressed in the "if you can help it" part of my comment.

> You have no idea how entitled you behave.

I have 100% idea how entitled I behave. I don't at all. I don't use MinIO. As an employee, I push internally for relying on our own infra (but we are quite good at this already).

I don't expect open source projects to provide binaries. Well, I kinda do if they've been doing it though. Expectations vs entitlement? Not the same thing.

We're discussing human interactions and expectations here.

---

So, in your opinion, what's the point of providing pre-built binaries if you don't want others to be able to rely on them then?

As someone who develops free software in my hobbies and also as an employee, if I provide binaries for free, I 100% expect people to be able to rely on them, or I just don't do it, and I would 100% feel like I'd be causing them issues by stopping doing it on short notice. I would feel like I'd owe them explanations (and their can be valid ones I'm sure - burn out would be a hell of a valid explanation to stop working on the projects at all) if I did that. They'd not be entitled to receive the binaries from me, but they would expect it and breaking expectations is not very nice. I have difficulties seeing this another way to be honest.

Let's also recall that we are talking about a project who's business might have benefited from the adoption in the first place.

> why do you care?

I could care about nothing, but that's not what I'm on HN for. I'm curious and interested.

You can read more about my views on this stuff here if it can help understand me: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45667271

Re: MinIO stops distributing free Docker images

#113

Post by fukka42 »

jinkylist wrote: post #20
MuteXR wrote: post #7

Keep in mind this is the same project that removed all useful functionality from the included web UI in the community edition with the excuse that it was too much effort to maintain. This is another case of VC-funded companies pulling up the ladder behind themselves.

Is it an excuse? Maintaining code costs money, and the previous versions are provided under the license, and you're free to modify it, pull selective patches and maintain them yourself. While It'd be convenient if the license was a promise to develop and maintain features for free in perpetuity, it just isn't. I run into this in non-company backed open source projects all the time too. Some maintainer gets burned out…

[dead]

Re: MinIO stops distributing free Docker images

#114

Post by weli »

Hendrikto wrote: post #95
DannyBee wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"That expectation does not entitle anybody to anything though." This is true legally, but not otherwise (socially, practically) "That is their decision. Without any contract or promise, there is no obligation to anybody." Again, true legally, but IMHO a really silly position to take overall. Imagine I provide free electricity to everyone in my town. I encourage everyone to use it. I do it all for free. I'm very caref…

This is a bad analogy. We are talking about building a very simple Docker image. It is more like you went around your neighborhood and turned peoples lights on in the evening, then stopped. Sure, it’s a lost convenience, but people can easily choose to just… push the button themselves. Or pay somebody to continue doing it for them. Or get a timer. It’s really not a big deal, and there are plenty of alternatives.

I think you are missing the point of legal vs societal obligations and your analogy is equally bad. Minio's sold you this free light bulb and they also freely offered the service to upgrade it to the newest version every time a new lightbulb was released. There are many light bulb brands out there, some paid, some free, most of them also offer the service to upgrade the lightbulb automatically, even the free ones.

Then Minio decided to disable the feature to upgrade the lightbulb automatically, the code to update it is still there, they just don't want to do it anymore. Conveniently there is a Minio+ enterprise plan that has this feature. But hey! they tell you that you can easily set up your own server to update your lightbulb automatically. And most enterprise clients or people who have Minio lightbulbs in their office will do that.

But for single enthusiasts who don't have a server because they are just running a Minio lightbulb in their shed it's a bad situation, because if they knew this from the beginning they would have gone with another free lightbulb that updated automatically.

In short: Minio has the legal right to do whatever they want, people using minio have the right to be pissed. It's an all around bad publicity stunt and if I was a Minio investor I would really wonder why they are trying to piss off their loyal user base for a quick buck.

Re: MinIO stops distributing free Docker images

#115

Post by c0balt »

mlrtime wrote: post #97
c0balt wrote: post #10

I'm glad to have migrated to garage in time. This is quite unfortunate though as a lot of open source projects, like plane.so, used minio via container images for s3 with docker compose.

What did you lose exactly, I don't get it.

Minions has taken away the admin UI for everything except a bucket browser in one of the last releases.

And now they have stopped publishing updates to their community edition docker images. As the linked GitHub issue points out this now means at least one vulnerability will be unpatched (unless you install from source or switch the image) for anyone relying on updates to the original container image.

My loss exactly was that minio lost most of its appeal when it stopped having an integrated management console. It also seemed they were moving into a direction where features were gonna be more separated off for their aistore products over the community edition (a fair move but not something I want to happen to my deployment).

Re: MinIO stops distributing free Docker images

#116

Post by c0balt »

Imustaskforhelp wrote: post #77
c0balt wrote: post #10

I'm glad to have migrated to garage in time. This is quite unfortunate though as a lot of open source projects, like plane.so, used minio via container images for s3 with docker compose.

thoughts on https://github.com/coollabsio/minio ? I feel like this could be used till the time plane.so or other projects feel like they could migrate to garage or maybe just use these coollabsio minio docker image?

My problem was mostly that MinIO was not significantly better for my use-case then garage after the admin console was yanked. Thank you for the pointer though, I will take a look at this for my plane.so instance (using a private containerized minio there still).

Re: MinIO stops distributing free Docker images

#117

Post by ishouldbework »

mlrtime wrote: post #90
DannyBee wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"That expectation does not entitle anybody to anything though." This is true legally, but not otherwise (socially, practically) "That is their decision. Without any contract or promise, there is no obligation to anybody." Again, true legally, but IMHO a really silly position to take overall. Imagine I provide free electricity to everyone in my town. I encourage everyone to use it. I do it all for free. I'm very caref…

Bad analogy, MinIO isn't a basic commodity required for life. Maybe a car analogy (because they hardly work). It's like lending your car to someone everyday then stopping, then the person complains that they have no way to get around. But there is walking, biking, busses or buying your own car.

Electricity is not a basic commodity required for life. It is convenient for sure.

Re: MinIO stops distributing free Docker images

#118

Post by mcpeepants »

redserk wrote: post #65
jbstack wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Where did you see a demand? The comment you're replying to merely asked if there is a fork.

The inclusion of the word “already” suggests that someone should have put forth effort to fork this project by now. That’s where I interpreted this as a demand.

I took it at face value - “has someone already put for the effort?”. You know, assume positive intent and all that.

Re: MinIO stops distributing free Docker images

#119

Post by ukd1 »

jinkylist wrote: post #20
MuteXR wrote: post #7

Keep in mind this is the same project that removed all useful functionality from the included web UI in the community edition with the excuse that it was too much effort to maintain. This is another case of VC-funded companies pulling up the ladder behind themselves.

Is it an excuse? Maintaining code costs money, and the previous versions are provided under the license, and you're free to modify it, pull selective patches and maintain them yourself. While It'd be convenient if the license was a promise to develop and maintain features for free in perpetuity, it just isn't. I run into this in non-company backed open source projects all the time too. Some maintainer gets burned out…

It's different as a) they did offer it for free and b) have to maintain it for the closed version.

However, this is also a classic move, so shouldn't be unexpected behavior these days...

Re: MinIO stops distributing free Docker images

#120

Post by Hackbraten »

weli wrote: post #114
Hendrikto wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a bad analogy. We are talking about building a very simple Docker image. It is more like you went around your neighborhood and turned peoples lights on in the evening, then stopped. Sure, it’s a lost convenience, but people can easily choose to just… push the button themselves. Or pay somebody to continue doing it for them. Or get a timer. It’s really not a big deal, and there are plenty of alternatives.

I think you are missing the point of legal vs societal obligations and your analogy is equally bad. Minio's sold you this free light bulb and they also freely offered the service to upgrade it to the newest version every time a new lightbulb was released. There are many light bulb brands out there, some paid, some free, most of them also offer the service to upgrade the lightbulb automatically, even the free ones. Th…

> But for single enthusiasts who don't have a server because they are just running a Minio lightbulb in their shed it's a bad situation, because if they knew this from the beginning they would have gone with another free lightbulb that updated automatically.

What keeps those enthusiasts from setting up a scheduled GitHub Action (or whatever system they prefer to use) to build the image for themselves?

How much (amortized) effort are we actually talking about here? One minute per release?

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