Live data from Hacker News

Bare Metal (The Emacs Essay)

waxbanks.wordpress.com

111–120 of 125 posts

Re: Bare Metal (The Emacs Essay)

#111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My sweet summer child.

Your litany of butthurt actually bolsters my opinion of the bozos at emacs-devel, who I've long criticized for hypocritically advancing emacs on proprietary os's despite their ostensible mission to destroy them.

You seem to think there is only one version of Emacs, and that its entire monolithic developer community is totally unified in its opinion and philosophy and mission, so you can accuse the entire community of being hypocritical if there is any dissent or diversity or competition.

I just wrote a long list of proprietary operating systems one version of Emacs ran on, and even linked to the source code proving it, which RMS opposes so vehemently that he calls it "Software Hoarder Emacs", and jokingly accuses its developers of burning his house down.

If you really think RMS's mission to destroy all non-free operating systems is "ostensible", you definitely don't know him or his reputation.

>ostensible /ɒˈstɛn(t)sɪbl/ adjective: stated or appearing to be true, but not necessarily so.

Re: Bare Metal (The Emacs Essay)

#112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your litany of butthurt actually bolsters my opinion of the bozos at emacs-devel, who I've long criticized for hypocritically advancing emacs on proprietary os's despite their ostensible mission to destroy them.

You seem to think there is only one version of Emacs, and that its entire monolithic developer community is totally unified in its opinion and philosophy and mission, so you can accuse the entire community of being hypocritical if there is any dissent or diversity or competition. I just wrote a long list of proprietary operating systems one version of Emacs ran on, and even linked to the source code proving it, which…

You're overcomplicating this. If RMS and his lackeys were so hellbent on ridding prop OS's from the world, they could move marginally closer to that goal by simply deleting w32* ns* and android* from GNU Emacs. That they instead collectively spend several man-months per year stressing about their upkeep means they care more about expanding their userbase than any bullshit notion of "freedom."

Re: Bare Metal (The Emacs Essay)

#113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This isn't much of an argument, Don. Just being condescending may be charming somewhere else, but here it just looks like you're being a jerk -- and a jerk without much that's relevant to add to the conversation.

Do you really believe that RMS has suddenly done a 180 and changed his core beliefs and philosophy about Apple and Macs and non-free operating systems? Do you even know him, have you ever talked with him about free software or copyleft, have you ever even read anything he's written? Are you brand new to this whole "free software" thing, and it's a total shock to you that RMS has a long standing opinion about supporti…

RMS is functionally irrelevant to the experience of someone on a Mac who wants to use emacs, because -- Again! -- all you have to do is download a build and you're off to the races.

That's the end of the discussion. It doesn't matter what RMS' position is. (And yes, I know what those are -- and no, I've never spoken to him, because I tend to avoid creeps.)

emacs is free software that, once released to the world, will find its way into many places perhaps its most famous proponent would prefer it not. And this happens because his opinion is irrelevant. This has happened before. This will happen again. RMS being a sad puppy about Macs and Windows doesn't change the fact that many, many folks have productive emacs-centered computing experiences on those platforms. He can die mad about it.

You posted a shitton of material, but none of it addressed the simple fact that using emacs on a Mac is approximately as easy as using it on (e.g.) Debian. There's no real difference for most use cases.

I'm not in the habit of taking homework from gish-galloping boomers hell bent on missing the point, so I'm not going to answer any of your questions. I will, however, note that I'm far from the only person in this thread looking at you and thinking "what the hell is this guy on about?"

Re: Bare Metal (The Emacs Essay)

#115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Non-Emacs folk often don't see the "actual use cases" because their minds operate on a different plane. youve just listed a bunch of scripts launched from emacs. with your logic, you can take the lisp interpreter out of emacs, stick it into say mspaint, and have an equally powerful program.

Yes, it may sound like that to someone unacquainted with it. But have you ever thought about the reasons why Emacs remains relevant and triumphant even half a century later? Here's really fascinating stuff: I can start a fresh new instance of plain, vanilla, clean-slate instance of Emacs; then open a scratch buffer and piece-by-piece rebuild my entire configuration, consisting of a dozen thousand lines of customizati…

> I can start a fresh new instance of plain, vanilla, clean-slate instance of Emacs; then open a scratch buffer and piece-by-piece rebuild my entire configuration, consisting of a dozen thousand lines of customizations; install third-party packages that bring hundreds of thousands of their own code;

we're here to edit text though, I thought? It sounds clever but it might be clever for clevers sake sometimes.

Re: Bare Metal (The Emacs Essay)

#116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, it may sound like that to someone unacquainted with it. But have you ever thought about the reasons why Emacs remains relevant and triumphant even half a century later? Here's really fascinating stuff: I can start a fresh new instance of plain, vanilla, clean-slate instance of Emacs; then open a scratch buffer and piece-by-piece rebuild my entire configuration, consisting of a dozen thousand lines of customizati…

> I can start a fresh new instance of plain, vanilla, clean-slate instance of Emacs; then open a scratch buffer and piece-by-piece rebuild my entire configuration, consisting of a dozen thousand lines of customizations; install third-party packages that bring hundreds of thousands of their own code; we're here to edit text though, I thought? It sounds clever but it might be clever for clevers sake sometimes.

> we're here to edit text though, I thought?

It seems you're missing the point - that example is 'reductio ad absurdum' - a showcase of the logical extreme of capabilities, not an illustration of concrete practicality.

You seem to be blinded by your sunk cost, social proof, tribal identity, status quo, and other biases, so you rather reject novel ideas than accept their practical superiority in certain scenarios.

Emacs, in every respect, is a pinnacle of text editing in its digital form. Half a century of evolution and refinement with fundamental architectural advantage - a Lisp runtime that happens to edit text.

It makes it possible to edit any text that lives within its running instance and beyond - just about anything it can reach - containers, kubernetes pods, browsers. I can edit the URL of any tab in my browser directly from my editor; remote computers - I can edit a commit message on an EC2 instance; heck, even spacecrafts a million miles away - if it can gain access. More than that - there's universal bidirectionality - I can push any text into Emacs - from my terminal, my browser, or any app. If I allow access to it, I can even push to Emacs from remote computers.

I'm, by the way, not an 'Emacs purist' - I use Neovim daily, and sometimes VSCode too. I have used various JetBrains products - I was a heavy user of IntelliJ for almost a decade. Yet, getting exposure to Emacs capabilities proved that I was wrong in my prejudice and I should've tried it sooner. Like I said: it's a mindset-changing endeavor - without a heartfelt attempt to use it, it's unlikely you'll ever get what I'm even talking about.

Re: Bare Metal (The Emacs Essay)

#117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I can start a fresh new instance of plain, vanilla, clean-slate instance of Emacs; then open a scratch buffer and piece-by-piece rebuild my entire configuration, consisting of a dozen thousand lines of customizations; install third-party packages that bring hundreds of thousands of their own code; we're here to edit text though, I thought? It sounds clever but it might be clever for clevers sake sometimes.

> we're here to edit text though, I thought? It seems you're missing the point - that example is 'reductio ad absurdum' - a showcase of the logical extreme of capabilities, not an illustration of concrete practicality. You seem to be blinded by your sunk cost, social proof, tribal identity, status quo, and other biases, so you rather reject novel ideas than accept their practical superiority in certain scenarios. Ema…

If I could get you access to a spacecraft a million miles away, would you stay there and never come back?

Re: Bare Metal (The Emacs Essay)

#118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> we're here to edit text though, I thought? It seems you're missing the point - that example is 'reductio ad absurdum' - a showcase of the logical extreme of capabilities, not an illustration of concrete practicality. You seem to be blinded by your sunk cost, social proof, tribal identity, status quo, and other biases, so you rather reject novel ideas than accept their practical superiority in certain scenarios. Ema…

If I could get you access to a spacecraft a million miles away, would you stay there and never come back?

Do you really have to be a jerk? Or you were dropped in your infancy and you just can't fucking help it? Go seek some professional help maybe, it really hurts to see someone being so miserable.

Re: Bare Metal (The Emacs Essay)

#119
post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm using Emacs to read these comments. Because... why not?

true, why not. I was making a funny comment to let people know eww works.

Haha. What's really cool about eww, that you can just open any page, and then change the major-mode of it - I read org-mode, markdown readme's like that, or explore CI logs, etc.

Re: Bare Metal (The Emacs Essay)

#120
post #84
post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I customized grep-find on my setup. I have a shell script so that it does the following (in typescript-mode) first search ts, tsx, js, jsx files in the current project. Exclude .git, node_modules... then search node_modules with the ts.. extensions, still exclude .git finally search the whole tree for .py files still exclude .git, /dist... This is coupled with consult-find-grep. I basically want to find a string in t…

Would you mind sharing how you did the prioritization of the sources when searching?

https://github.com/paddymul/emacs-from-scratch/blob/master/p...

and

https://github.com/paddymul/emacs-from-scratch/blob/master/p...

The emacs-lisp for changing the behaviour of consult-grep was quite complex and took a while to write.

Post reply on HN