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Don't Be a Sucker (1943) [video]

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Re: Don't Be a Sucker (1943) [video]

#111

Post by pyuser583 »

"We must never let ourselves be divided by race or by color or religion. Because, in this country we all belong to minority groups. I was born in Hungary, you are . These are minorities. And then you belong to other minority groups too. You are a farmer, you have blue eyes, you go to the Methodist church, your right to belong to these minorities is a precious thing. You have a right to be what you are and to say what you think. Because here we have personal freedom. We have liberty. And these are not just fancy words. This is a practical and priceless way of living. But we must work at it. We must guard everyone's liberties. Or we can lose our own. If we allow any minority to lose it's freedom by persecution or by prejudice, we are threatening our own freedom."

I don't think anyone sees it this way anymore. We are much more "zero-sum," both right and left.

Re: Don't Be a Sucker (1943) [video]

#112

Post by gen220 »

zahlman wrote: post #60
ok_dad wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The scary part is how this is being done, not that immigration laws are being “followed” (they aren’t). Masked men roaming the streets arresting even US citizens without a warrant. Going into court rooms and houses of worship to do it. Using violence on unarmed peaceful protesters, regardless of the protest legality. Combine it with the Republican inability to follow the law and the current rhetoric about “antifa” an…

Can you show that they have arrested US citizens without reasonable suspicion? Can you otherwise show that law is not being followed? From what I can tell, they are legally allowed to wear masks for this. ICE's webpage also is adamant that they legally do not always require a warrant ( https://www.ice.gov/immigration-enforcement-frequently-asked... ), and Snopes agrees ( https://www.snopes.com/news/2025/06/21/ice-arr…

Have you considered that it doesn’t matter that what they’re doing is legal?

You don’t need to know if it’s legal or illegal to know that it is wrong. It is against the spirit of this nation (or, perversely, you could say it’s the intrinsic spirit of this nation coming out…). There are plenty of things legal which are wrong.

That anyone is defending these actions by claiming to do them “legally” is a means of saving face with the people in our society who are distant enough from those directly and indirectly affected, and who struggle to differentiate morality from law. This kind of thinking is a slippery slope that leads to the institutionalization of violence.

If it were legal for ICE to hold *humans* classified by the state as “illegal migrants” in concentration camps, would you continue to defend that policy as merely enforcing the law?

Re: Don't Be a Sucker (1943) [video]

#113

Post by pyuser583 »

neilv wrote: post #23

I love that this was US propaganda at one point. The US always has failings, but this message is something we can be proud of.

There was a FOIA-dump of old NSA propaganda posters. The kind they put up around Fort Meade for their own employees.

It started off, in the early-50s, with things like "Remember, Freedom of the Press is one of the most important Freedoms." and "Remember, Freedoms come not from humans, but from nature/God itself."

Then it slowly morphed into "Remember, we practice security so we can defend our liberties: every security breach harms our liberty."

Then is quickly morphed into "Please don't have classified conversations in the carpool."

Re: Don't Be a Sucker (1943) [video]

#114

Post by pyuser583 »

Terr_ wrote: post #3
themafia wrote: post #2

Nazi Germany built it's regime through direct control of the media and censorship of anyone or any idea that challenged their ideology. I'm not sure propaganda that ignores the power of propaganda is a great idea.

Ah, but how exactly did the Nazis reach that point when they didn't have that capability? Perhaps... the things in the video? Compare: "This video on pulling weeds is useless, because after the tree has grown it has a mighty root-system."

There hasn't been great scholarship on the buildup of Fascism - or at least there are some big missing pieces.

So many records were destroyed, and until very recently, propaganda was still sacrosanct.

In Communist countries, Fascism had to be Capitalist reaction to working class solidarity. In Western Countries, there was more freedom, but there was a strong stigma against any analysis that violated Atlanticist principals. Hannah Arendt's "Eichmann in Jerusalem" raised too much controversy for claiming Eichmann was just a joiner, not hateful.

Until recently it wasn't just propaganda, but a basic human decency not to ask certain questions too loudly while the survivors of the Holocaust were still alive, and their persecutors lived unpunished.

For example, there's little willingness (in the West) to discuss the role Russian emigres played in supporting Fascism? They were obviously being opportunistic, as were Ukrainians and Finns.

I learned very recently that in late November 1918, weeks after World War I ended, the British told the Germans they could expand Eastward, rearming if necessary, to prevent the Bolsheviks from advancing.

The Germans had already disarmed, and no longer had functional militaries. But they were able to raise self-sustained militias that moved into parts of Poland and Lithuania.

Later on, Nazi propaganda played up this fact, while Allied propgandists chose to ignore it. It likely had a role in convincing Germans they had a "natural" claim to East Europe.

Looking at the news, the German army recently held marches in these places, as a sign of support for NATO against the Russians.

Re: Don't Be a Sucker (1943) [video]

#115

Post by laidoffamazon »

christophilus wrote: post #82
laidoffamazon wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We’ve gone from CCP control of the media spigot to pro-US regime billionaires controlling it. One step forward and another step back.

I mean, the previous administration famously pulled strings across Twitter and Facebook to demote right wing media outlets on those platforms. This kind of crap isn’t new, and needs to stop.

Not what happened, not in the same universe

Re: Don't Be a Sucker (1943) [video]

#116

Post by thomassmith65 »

pyuser583 wrote: post #111

"We must never let ourselves be divided by race or by color or religion. Because, in this country we all belong to minority groups. I was born in Hungary, you are . These are minorities. And then you belong to other minority groups too. You are a farmer, you have blue eyes, you go to the Methodist church, your right to belong to these minorities is a precious thing. You have a right to be what you are and to say what…

  We are much more "zero-sum," both right and left.
The mistake with ending on that note is that, while 'both right and left' are more zero-sum, only the left gives a shit about the ideals in the actual quote.

To drive the point home, the current crop of Republicans wouldn't take kindly to an immigrant SJW college professor like the character in the film preaching to them about liberal values.

Then again, he is Hungarian like Viktor Orbán, so maybe that would get him in the door.

https://npr.org/2025/05/29/nx-s1-5399682/hungary-trump-vikto...

Re: Don't Be a Sucker (1943) [video]

#117

Post by popalchemist »

113 wrote: post #58
2OEH8eoCRo0 wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What problems?

Well it's massively overtly nationalist for one. There's a hilarious sequence at the beginning that's just shots of American industry and agriculture.

It may be nationalist, but not because it's showing American industry and agriculture. All nations have an intrinsic self-interest in such things... there is no nation on Earth now or in the past that would take the stance which you imply is the only acceptable one - a disregard for their own productivity, wealth, and self-sufficiency.

Re: Don't Be a Sucker (1943) [video]

#118

Post by autoexec »

softgrow wrote: post #103
neilv wrote: post #23

I love that this was US propaganda at one point. The US always has failings, but this message is something we can be proud of.

I watched the film and was surprised when it moved on from gambling and scams. Initially thought it was aimed at avoiding being scammed of your hard earned cash by shysters. I wonder if there is a film produced at the time about that?

> Initially thought it was aimed at avoiding being scammed of your hard earned cash by shysters.

Well, that too really. Just a different breed of shyster, but they'll come for your wallet as sure as they will your freedoms.

Re: Don't Be a Sucker (1943) [video]

#120

Post by pyuser583 »

thomassmith65 wrote: post #116
pyuser583 wrote: post #111

"We must never let ourselves be divided by race or by color or religion. Because, in this country we all belong to minority groups. I was born in Hungary, you are . These are minorities. And then you belong to other minority groups too. You are a farmer, you have blue eyes, you go to the Methodist church, your right to belong to these minorities is a precious thing. You have a right to be what you are and to say what…

We are much more "zero-sum," both right and left. The mistake with ending on that note is that, while 'both right and left' are more zero-sum, only the left gives a shit about the ideals in the actual quote. To drive the point home, the current crop of Republicans wouldn't take kindly to an immigrant SJW college professor like the character in the film preaching to them about liberal values. Then again, he is Hungari…

The quote is a call for unity, so I felt it inappropriate to end by attacking my fellow citizens.
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