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Larry Ellison – 'citizens will be on their best behavior' amid nonstop recording

fortune.com

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Re: Larry Ellison – 'citizens will be on their best behavior' amid nonstop recording

#111

Post by thepryz »

constantcrying wrote: post #38
potato3732842 wrote: post #7

The fact that an out of touch billionaire might say such a thing doesn't bother me much, he's out of touch after all. The fact that we reliably and repeatedly see peasants (i.e. any less equal animal, so everyone here) who have no such excuse cheerleading for specific implementations in furtherance of their pet issues bothers me greatly. I'd say you ought to know better, but you do. When these subjects are discussed…

How is he out of touch? He clearly is extremely in touch with the current direction of AI and the abilities to use it for mass surveillance. Portraying these people as naive villains is not helpful at all. They have very clear goals and the means to accomplish them.

Billionaires are out of touch because their money, their power, and their social circle insulates them from the challenges everyday people experience. Their goals are to find ways to protect and expand their wealth and their power. You don’t become a billionaire by looking out for other people.

Their goals and their perspectives should mean that they have absolutely no business making policy decisions for society but unfortunately people are naive and easily influenced.

Re: Larry Ellison – 'citizens will be on their best behavior' amid nonstop recording

#113

Post by JumpCrisscross »

cjbgkagh wrote: post #48
c-linkage wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because they already own those assets and don't want anyone else to have them. The perception of wealth is always relative so if I can't make any more to maintain my status I must ensure that others can't get what I have.

Not sure if the causality there is the right way around, I would suggest that because they have these beliefs they are allowed to amass that wealth. Oracle is a CIA spin-off (1977), they even kept the code name. The CIA works closely with Mossad. The 'abolish all billionaires' plan is encouraged precisely because it will be ineffective - they're assets of the state secret police and good luck abolishing that.

> The 'abolish all billionaires' plan is encouraged precisely because it will be ineffective - they're assets of the state secret police

Sorry, all billionaires are “assets of the state secret police”? So who calls the shots?

Re: Larry Ellison – 'citizens will be on their best behavior' amid nonstop recording

#114

Post by andsoitis »

jodrellblank wrote: post #100
dylan604 wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The GP’s comment has nothing to do with the US though. So what’s your point?

GP's claim is that UK is massively surveilled and the UK is unsafe, therefore surveillance does not improve safety. However the UK is a long way above the USA; if one wants to argue that the surveillance isn't the cause of the safety, they can, but they can't take that for granted by snarkily saying the UK isn't safe. If I was trying to say that the UK is safe because it's #30 on the Peace Index when the USA was high…

> GP's claim is that UK is massively surveilled and the UK is unsafe, therefore surveillance does not improve safety.

So do you think Ellison is right? That surveillance would make the US much safer?

Re: Larry Ellison – 'citizens will be on their best behavior' amid nonstop recording

#115

Post by JumpCrisscross »

js8 wrote: post #110
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That’s a study shoehorn… Would his statements be better if he were pro-Gaza or something else?

It would certainly better support his statement that the people are on their best behavior if being monitored. If his statement is true, then the real Larry Ellison (not publicly known one) is worse than a genocide supporter. He basically discredits himself by making that statement.

> It would certainly better support his statement that the people are on their best behavior if being monitored

It literally wouldn’t. Whether people behave better when surveilled in independently verifiable. Whether or not bees exist doesn’t revolve around the political beliefs of the person claiming they do.

Re: Larry Ellison – 'citizens will be on their best behavior' amid nonstop recording

#116

Post by andsoitis »

lupusreal wrote: post #105
andsoitis wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

what does this have to do with the story?

How could Ellison's motivation for creating a surveillance state possibly not be relevant?

> How could Ellison's motivation for creating a surveillance state possibly not be relevant?

What is his motivation? Why is Israel relevant?

Re: Larry Ellison – 'citizens will be on their best behavior' amid nonstop recording

#117

Post by lapcat »

koolba wrote: post #39

I encourage people making snap comments to read at least one entire paragraph of the article: > “We’re going to have supervision,” Ellison said. “Every police officer is going to be supervised at all times, and if there’s a problem, AI will report that problem and report it to the appropriate person. Citizens will be on their best behavior because we are constantly recording and reporting everything that’s going on.”…

Cameras on police are mostly irrelevant. This has been proved repeatedly, at least as far back as Rodney King in 1992. We saw the video of the police beating Rodney King, but the police were nonetheless protected by the legal system. It's extremely rare for police to suffer consequences from their behavior.

Any minor transgression from most people will be punished severely. Even the worst transgression from powerful people will be forgiven. That's how our system works. Don't ever think that Orwellian surveillance will put everyone on a level playing field. As an ultra-powerful person, Larry Ellison is well aware of this.

Re: Larry Ellison – 'citizens will be on their best behavior' amid nonstop recording

#118

Post by fakedang »

koolba wrote: post #39

I encourage people making snap comments to read at least one entire paragraph of the article: > “We’re going to have supervision,” Ellison said. “Every police officer is going to be supervised at all times, and if there’s a problem, AI will report that problem and report it to the appropriate person. Citizens will be on their best behavior because we are constantly recording and reporting everything that’s going on.”…

> People do act differently when they know they are being watched. Even more so when they know they are being recorded.

London is the most surveilled city in the world outside China, in terms of the number of intelligent cameras they have around the city, yet that does not stop crime from being significantly reduced.

Re: Larry Ellison – 'citizens will be on their best behavior' amid nonstop recording

#119

Post by andsoitis »

ddq wrote: post #84
everdrive wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> and if there’s a problem, AI will report that problem and report it to the appropriate person. The long march of us making terrible decisions with technology continues. I'm not sure how to get away from it.

We stop collaborating. Technologists, engineers, and support staff make this machine run. It must be made personally infeasible to continue contributing to our own shortsighted destruction. The incentive structure can and must be changed.

> We stop collaborating. Technologists, engineers, and support staff make this machine run.

"We" don't all view the world through the same lens. And moreover not on all matters. Your framing is erroneous, which leads to incorrect assumptions and strategy.

Re: Larry Ellison – 'citizens will be on their best behavior' amid nonstop recording

#120

Post by amval »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #106
amval wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, yes, it would be better if he didn't amplify propaganda for the country that is committing a genocide and would raise awareness for the victims. Is this not self-evident?

The point is this comes down to a foreign policy disagreement that isn’t germane to Ellison’s comments on surveillance. (I can come with a litany of policy disagreements with anyone of Ellison’s stature, some of which I probably feel about strongly.) Read in good faith, it’s overzealous advocacy. In bad faith, which I don’t assume here, it serves to get this discussion flagged off the front page.

You don't think that the fact that Ellison is a staunch defender of regimes that disregard the international order in favour of military might is relevant to the fact that is also advocating for building a surveillance state?

In case you don't, to me it's painfully clear that these are just different aspects of the move towards more authoritarian forms of government. You CANNOT support a genocide and expect that this will not have an effect on democracy.

EDIT: Also note that I am trying to take your comments on good faith, but characterising support for genocide as "a foreign policy disagreement" feels a bit like an understatement.

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