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A human-accelerated neuron type potentially underlying autism in humans

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Re: A human-accelerated neuron type potentially underlying autism in humans

#111

Post by jibal »

cwmoore wrote: post #50
agentcoops wrote: post #19

There's an ambiguity in the title, reflected in some comments below. It can be understood either as the claim that "in a particular human being, to be intelligent as measured by IQ means that you are more likely to be autistic", suggesting for example a trade-off between social and general intelligence; or the claim that "the evolution of the human brain and so human intelligence as such, which characterizes both tho…

Thank you for the clarification. Can't read the paper. Who was it that was quoted often a decade ago that described the intellectual variance difference between the sexes? The research concluded that women are smarter (just kidding) that men have much greater variance while women are generally closer to the mean and one another in abilities. Since differences between the sexes exist, I would also expect differences a…

It was Larry Summers, who was frequently mischaracterized as having claimed that men were smarter than women. But he was far from innocent--it was one of the worst cases ever of failing to read the room--a room full of extremely accomplished and intelligent women ... and his speculations severely failed to account for cultural factors. It rationalized the status quo and suggested that nothing could change it. The history of women in STEM since then has refuted those speculations ... though the attack on "DEI" is turning the progress around.

> Since differences between the sexes exist, I would also expect differences among the sexes to cluster for evolutionarily relevant reasons

And what is one supposed to do with this vague generalization? Mostly it used to reinforce biases.

Re: A human-accelerated neuron type potentially underlying autism in humans

#112

Post by [deleted] »

petermcneeley wrote: post #27

What if it is more like Vegeta's super saiyan 2. A false super saiyan 2 form. Just like the real SS2 maintains both power and agility the real Übermensch will attain new levels of IQ while maintaining if not advancing a strong EQ. https://dragonball.fandom.com/wiki/Super_Saiyan_Second_Grade

[deleted]

Re: A human-accelerated neuron type potentially underlying autism in humans

#113

Post by somenameforme »

zeroonetwothree wrote: post #102
somenameforme wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The reality is that wealth is inversely correlated with fertility. As are intelligence, education, secularity, and so on. IQ is a decent proxy for intelligence. What many people don't know is that it's not a raw score, but relative. The mean of a population is always set to 100 and a standard deviation is generally 15 points. So an IQ of 115 means you performed better than 84% of people, one positive standard deviati…

For most of human history wealth was positively correlated with fertility and especially with next generation fertility. The trend has changed in the more recent centuries but it’s not enough to affect us too much evolutionarily (for now).

But it is! To take a silly but noncontroversial example - if, for just a single fertility generation (which is driven by the female fertility window for humans - about 20 years) anybody over 5'3" stopped having children, all humans would become quite short! Of course there's some asterisks there like malnutrition may mean somebody's genetically 'normal' height is greater than their expressed height, but the broad point remains true - in a single generation there would be a dramatic transformation in humanity.

This has also been observed in nature. For instance most people view the variation in Darwin's finches as something gradually happening over eons, but further studies on them showed a rapid shift in beak morphology following a single severe drought. [1] It's the same stuff - suddenly one beak became more likely to reproduce (or not), which drove a very rapid population level change.

[1] - https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2016/04/160421145759.h...

Re: A human-accelerated neuron type potentially underlying autism in humans

#115

Post by kruffalon »

ok_dad wrote: post #104
ninetyninenine wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He equated being insane with being a genius. Nowhere did he mention autism. I'm diagnosed as autistic and I am therefore more qualified than you to classify what is rude and what isn't rude to autistic people. I think misrepresenting what he actually said is what is rude, not what he in actuality said.

Thanks, I am also autistic, so I guess we're evenly matched for this battle to the death :) Also, I wouldn't presume to speak for all autistic people, though I am one. Sometimes people can take the same sentence to mean different things. Please don't assume malice from others where it could be a difference of understanding. I am not mad or anything, I know how it is to misunderstand things.

I just noticed (and got a chuckle out of) something:

To me it looks like you first "assumed malice", got called out and now don't want to be assumed malignant yourself.

Thanks for the chuckle!

But in seriousness: would you mind describing how you interpret your own participation in this thread?

I'm fascinated by this behaviour, but I suspect it's as "easy" as you not being able to interpret the original comment in more than one way.

(Just as I'm doing too, or at least we both seem to act like it anyway)

Re: A human-accelerated neuron type potentially underlying autism in humans

#116

Post by bamboozled »

throwaway173738 wrote: post #93
bamboozled wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe he was gay in a time when being gay was a death sentence ? Which would be really sad.

You can read his life history in some books. One that I’ve read says that he grew up essentially in foster care because his widowed mother remarried and continued to live mere miles away from him in the same town. She completely avoided all contact with him. You could imagine what that kind of rejection would do without having to invent his sexual orientation.

You're speculating just as much as I was? I never said "he was gay" I was just saying (like you) there are several others reasons he maybe didn't' marry outside of autism.

You actually make it sounds like what I said was derogatory?

Re: A human-accelerated neuron type potentially underlying autism in humans

#117

Post by poulpy123 »

karmakaze wrote: post #66

I'd thought that by living indoors and in otherwise controlled environments that there's not really much evolutionary pressure in any particular direction. Higher intelligence isn't a specific requirement to have (many) children live healthy lives.

Evolution still happens, but in any case if autism is a side effect of the genes that make us intelligent, they are here from much before than central heating and plumbing

Re: A human-accelerated neuron type potentially underlying autism in humans

#118

Post by jibal »

mikert89 wrote: post #2

Pretty clear theres a tradeoff between social intelligence and other forms of intelligence

That's not "pretty clear" at all--and you've provided no argument.

As a lifetime member and former officer of Mensa, I know many people with both very high IQ and very high EQ.

Re: A human-accelerated neuron type potentially underlying autism in humans

#119

Post by mort96 »

Insanity wrote: post #33
petermcneeley wrote: post #27

What if it is more like Vegeta's super saiyan 2. A false super saiyan 2 form. Just like the real SS2 maintains both power and agility the real Übermensch will attain new levels of IQ while maintaining if not advancing a strong EQ. https://dragonball.fandom.com/wiki/Super_Saiyan_Second_Grade

lol that’s an interesting comparison. Another angle is that our categorization of what is atypical is the actual problem, and not the symptom itself.

IMO the issue is that we use the term "autism" for two wildly different things. We use it for perfectly functional people who are more sensitive than usual to crowds and noise and prefers a somewhat different style of communication than most people. And we use it for completely non-functional people who can't communicate at all and don't understand what's being communicated to them and throw violent temper tantrums as adults. I understand that there are probably reasons why these share the same medical term, but I believe we should use different colloquial terms for the two.

Re: A human-accelerated neuron type potentially underlying autism in humans

#120

Post by jiggawatts »

pfisherman wrote: post #83
jiggawatts wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

An observation I've made is that the most people ("the general population") will compromise on hard facts without pause to attain social goals. I.e.: They will follow instructions from a workplace superior with zero push-back even if the instructions are total nonsense or impossible to physically implement. It's a rare breed (1-2%) of the population that will actively push back, insist on facts, and stick to only the…

> They will follow instructions from a workplace superior with zero push-back Zero push-back? Or zero push-back in front of the rest of the group? Humans are pack animals, highly evolved for social connection, and ostracism can be life threatening. The benefits of group membership and cohesion are enough that it is worth tolerating some mistakes and suboptimal outcomes because over time the expected utility for indiv…

I totally agree that if it’s “just” politics or some purely social situation, then sure, the optimal behaviour is the one that prioritises the group dynamics and social pecking order. Even in practical matters like hunting or war, obeying more senior leaders can have a net positive outcome because of their greater experience, etc… This is likely true in many “low information; high variability” situations… which is a lot of them… but not all.

The problem is that we have one set of wiring, one set of instincts, and one set of common social behaviours. These just don’t work in “unnatural” scenarios for which we aren’t evolved, such as pure mathematics or computer science.

The maths just doesn’t care about your seniority and a proof is a proof irrespective of the age of the author.

To truly excel in those “hard sciences” the default wiring isn’t optimal.

The article states that non-default wiring has the downside of also causing autism.

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