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Electron-based apps cause system-wide lag on macOS 26 Tahoe

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Re: Electron-based apps cause system-wide lag on macOS 26 Tahoe

#111

Post by badsectoracula »

sgjohnson wrote: post #72
wk_end wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What? Windows made tons of progress while maintaining this principle and became the most popular operating system in the world. Are you trying to tell me that you believe the evolution of Windows from 1.0 all the way to 7 - the entire time trying to operate according to this principle - doesn't constitute meaningful progress? The recent stagnation of the OS has nothing to do with attempting to maintain backwards comp…

You can still find applications written for Windows 3.1 in the latest builds of Windows 11. Something regarding database drivers if I recall correctly. Now imagine if you could get rid of all that legacy crap to make it work in the first place. Microsoft CAN’T do that, because the entire premise of Windows is backwards compatability. Apple? They don’t care. Killing 32bit apps? Just make an announcement saying that in…

> Now imagine if you could get rid of all that legacy crap to make it work in the first place.

That's easy to imagine: people would have zero reason to use Windows.

Re: Electron-based apps cause system-wide lag on macOS 26 Tahoe

#112

Post by Wowfunhappy »

stalfosknight wrote: post #70
ryandrake wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t understand what goes through the developer’s mind. A method is marked as private. It’s documented as not to be used by developers. Further documentation says that using it may break your application in strange ways now or in the future. Despite all this, the developer concludes: “yea, I think it’s a good idea to use this API!” Then, later when something breaks, it’s Shocked Pikachu all around.

And there are people who's default setting is to hate/blame Apple because it's fashionable to do so and they are defending not just the use of but also overriding an API explicitly marked as private. I don't get it.

Apple does also break public APIs, so it goes both ways. I will blame Apple when they are blameworthy and not when they are not.

Re: Electron-based apps cause system-wide lag on macOS 26 Tahoe

#113

Post by bigstrat2003 »

ttoinou wrote: post #78
rvz wrote: post #37

Well, that's...Electron for you. The most inefficient solution (in both space and time complexity) being suggested to build desktop apps is now shown to be causing widespread sluggishness. So much for interviewing developers for algorithms and data structures. Also Rust won't save you or make Electron faster either.

The most inefficient solution (in both space and time complexity) Those are not the only qualities / metrics to optimize for. Developer eXperience, cross platform, open standards, easy compatibility with websites, easiness to keep updated etc. can be far more important

Developer experience is never more important than the quality of the end product. The goal is to make good software, not to have the easiest time possible making mediocre to bad software.

Re: Electron-based apps cause system-wide lag on macOS 26 Tahoe

#114

Post by dpoloncsak »

wk_end wrote: post #47
cosmic_cheese wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple’s attitude here is that it’s an inherent risk of using private APIs, because it’s not something they want devs doing. They don’t facilitate it like MS tends to. Don’t touch the stove if you don’t want to get burnt.

The person who's getting burnt is Random Officer Worker Joe, who just wants to run Slack and Spotify and who doesn't know a thing about Electron or private APIs, but knows that ever since upgrading their version of macOS things are running terribly. Apple's position is technically noble, but that doesn't help their users.

Sounds like Joe will direct his anger towards Slack and Spotify, and as a paying customer he has every right to be upset when his software doesn't work.

Re: Electron-based apps cause system-wide lag on macOS 26 Tahoe

#115

Post by epistasis »

cyberax wrote: post #75
stalfosknight wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, it means some people are doing it wrong either because: 1. They don't know how to do it the right way or 2. They can't be bothered to do it the right way #1 I can understand. We all make mistakes as we learn and grow as developers. #2 is just arrogance / laziness on the part of the developer. Compounding it by blaming the platform owner that clearly and explicitly told you not to go that route is gross.

[flagged]

From the bug report:

> It turns out Electron was overriding a private AppKit API (_cornerMask) to apply custom corner masks to vibrant views.

> ...

> By removing the custom _cornerMask override and associated logic, we allow AppKit to handle shadows with its default pipeline. This resolves the GPU spike while retaining shadows as expected.

I'd say that most often usage of private APIs is because:

4. it probably shouldn't be done at all

Re: Electron-based apps cause system-wide lag on macOS 26 Tahoe

#116

Post by mrtesthah »

c-hendricks wrote: post #67

It's not limited to Electron applications: https://github.com/neovide/neovide/issues/3225 Other Tahoe issues with non-Electron apps: https://github.com/zed-industries/zed/issues/33182 https://github.com/wezterm/wezterm/issues/7255

This might be the fix: https://github.com/ghostty-org/ghostty/pull/8625/commits/431...

Re: Electron-based apps cause system-wide lag on macOS 26 Tahoe

#118

Post by wk_end »

dpoloncsak wrote: post #114
wk_end wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The person who's getting burnt is Random Officer Worker Joe, who just wants to run Slack and Spotify and who doesn't know a thing about Electron or private APIs, but knows that ever since upgrading their version of macOS things are running terribly. Apple's position is technically noble, but that doesn't help their users.

Sounds like Joe will direct his anger towards Slack and Spotify, and as a paying customer he has every right to be upset when his software doesn't work.

I doubt he will - they didn’t change, his OS did, they worked before, post hoc ergo propter hoc. Anyway, they’re from different companies, how could they both be at fault? If he even identifies them as related - he probably had them both running at startup and never quits them.

Re: Electron-based apps cause system-wide lag on macOS 26 Tahoe

#119

Post by mikamika83 »

c-hendricks wrote: post #67

It's not limited to Electron applications: https://github.com/neovide/neovide/issues/3225 Other Tahoe issues with non-Electron apps: https://github.com/zed-industries/zed/issues/33182 https://github.com/wezterm/wezterm/issues/7255

GPU load bug and Autofill bug are two separate, completely unrelated issues.

Re: Electron-based apps cause system-wide lag on macOS 26 Tahoe

#120

Post by mikamika83 »

altairprime wrote: post #14

Notes from the Google bug tracker linked by the GitHub issue: applying this command to each Chrome/Chromium app impacting your system will workaround the underlying macOS resource leak (EDIT: which only occurs when Electron mucks with private APIs to fake having native UI): defaults write com.google.Chrome NSAutoFillHeuristicControllerEnabled -bool false https://issues.chromium.org/issues/446481994#comment17 That com…

GPU load bug and Autofill bug are two separate, completely unrelated issues.
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