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Rights groups urge UK PM Starmer to abandon plans for mandatory digital ID

bigbrotherwatch.org.uk

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Re: Rights groups urge UK PM Starmer to abandon plans for mandatory digital ID

#111

Post by HankStallone »

nemomarx wrote: post #2

Why is the UK politics scene so focused on digital ID? Blair first proposed it and I feel like I've heard about it continually since with no progress. Different justifications every time too

Governments are always looking for better ways to track (and control) their subjects. The idea of a national ID[1] has been floated by various US politicians since before it would have been digital. Many Americans oppose it because they fear a government using it to round up dissenting citizens, and others oppose it because they fear it would be used to more effectively identify illegals (some oppose it on both grounds), so between them it's never gotten started.

The UK government does seem especially keen on the idea of a digital/video dystopia, though. Weird, like they're trying to prove Orwell right.

[1] Social Security numbers aren't unique and you aren't required to carry your SS card, so it doesn't work for that purpose.

Re: Rights groups urge UK PM Starmer to abandon plans for mandatory digital ID

#113

Post by Lio »

stringsandchars wrote: post #34

OTOH - partly playing devil's advocate here - I'm dealing with several bank and inheritance-related issues in the UK from my home in Sweden now, and needing to do pretty much ANYTHING with an authority in the UK feels like stepping back into the 17th century. There's a constant requirement for paperwork to prove who I am - always in the form of items that are 100% digital nowadays in the Nordic countries (like a "uti…

Part of the reason this is difficult maybe that there's an ongoing problem in the UK of foreign gangs using faked documents to steal inheritances[1][2].

I'm skeptical though whether a compulsory ID card for British nationals would help with that.

1. https://www.bbc.co.uk/mediacentre/2025/shadow-world-the-grav...

2. https://www.theabi.org.uk/news/is-eastern-european-organised...

Re: Rights groups urge UK PM Starmer to abandon plans for mandatory digital ID

#114

Post by SoftTalker »

octo888 wrote: post #88
stringsandchars wrote: post #34

OTOH - partly playing devil's advocate here - I'm dealing with several bank and inheritance-related issues in the UK from my home in Sweden now, and needing to do pretty much ANYTHING with an authority in the UK feels like stepping back into the 17th century. There's a constant requirement for paperwork to prove who I am - always in the form of items that are 100% digital nowadays in the Nordic countries (like a "uti…

I haven't had any organisation insist on a paper copy of a bill/statement for probably 10 years now

Nor have I ever had to prove my identity to a utility company to initiate service, so I'm not sure why a bill or statement with a name on it is proof of anything.

And when my father died, the water and electric service stayed on in his name for another decade at the house. Nobody really seems to care as long as the bills get paid.

Re: Rights groups urge UK PM Starmer to abandon plans for mandatory digital ID

#115

Post by unfitted2545 »

alecco wrote: post #106

In completely unrelated UK news: Britain jumps into bed with Palantir in £1.5B defense pact https://www.theregister.com/2025/09/20/uk_palantir_defense_p... 204 points|rntn|4 days ago|134 comments https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45313793

I learnt recently the head of Palantir's UK department is Oswald Mosley's grandson, that of course doesnt mean anything out right, but it's just interesting the way these things happen.

Re: Rights groups urge UK PM Starmer to abandon plans for mandatory digital ID

#116

Post by sega_sai »

KaiserPro wrote: post #32

So there are a number of digital IDs, but the problem is they are not really joined up or all that useful. In principle, there is nothing really that wrong with a digital ID, as at the moment you have a bunch of UUIDs (mostly) so its not actually that hard to marry you up between departments. In practice, what they'll do is hire accenture or some other dipshit company, spend _billions_ re-inventing a cross between a…

If this is an argument > In practice, what they'll do is hire accenture or some other dipshit company, spend _billions_ re-inventing a cross between a passport and oauth2, and it'll fail hard and be horribly insecure.

then we'll never do anything in the UK and we should all just give up on changing anything.

Also, btw the passport renewal is done without government gateway ID.

Re: Rights groups urge UK PM Starmer to abandon plans for mandatory digital ID

#117

Post by jdietrich »

stringsandchars wrote: post #34

OTOH - partly playing devil's advocate here - I'm dealing with several bank and inheritance-related issues in the UK from my home in Sweden now, and needing to do pretty much ANYTHING with an authority in the UK feels like stepping back into the 17th century. There's a constant requirement for paperwork to prove who I am - always in the form of items that are 100% digital nowadays in the Nordic countries (like a "uti…

The clearest example of the deficiencies of identity documents in the UK is the "Right to Work" process.

If you're an employer, you are legally required to check that anyone you hire has the right to work in the UK. The penalty for hiring an illegal immigrant - even accidentally - is a £60,000 fine. The guidance on how to perform a Right to Work check is 60 pages. A whole industry of third-party identity verification providers has sprung up, because the system is so complex that most employers don't feel able to do it themselves.

Ironically, performing a right to work check on a legal migrant with a work permit is trivially easy, because we've digitalised the visa system. They give you their Home Office share code, you type it in to a website, and the website shows you a photo of that person and clearly states whether or not that person has the right to work. We already have a really good digital ID service, but British nationals can't use it.

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/6878ead80263c...

https://www.gov.uk/evisa/view-evisa-get-share-code-prove-imm...

Re: Rights groups urge UK PM Starmer to abandon plans for mandatory digital ID

#118

Post by gambiting »

physicsguy wrote: post #44
mytailorisrich wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As someone who's just got their new British passport, faking the 3 pictures on it, and the whole passport itself, does not look trivial at all... I think it is much, much, much more common to have dodgy employers/landlords who do not carry out the checks at all because they are fine exploiting illegal immigrants, and no type of ID card would solve that...

Most people are paid cash in hand if they're working illegally realistically. I'm not sure that would change. But in enforcement it might since you could theoretically make it a legal requirement to produce the ID, that's the norm in many other countries.

Honestly the biggest problem is that government requires companies to verify identity of their employees but doesn't give them any means to do so. There was a recent case where a fish and chip shop owner was fined £40k for employing someone without a legal right to work in the UK, and the owner said the guy literally showed him his British passport, turns out it was a fake - but how was he(the business owner) supposed to know, if the government doesn't allow him to check this?

Re: Rights groups urge UK PM Starmer to abandon plans for mandatory digital ID

#119

Post by jdietrich »

hollerith wrote: post #96
LatteLazy wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The UK has a bunch of deeply divided issues: 40% want lower house prices and rents (tenants and would be buyers) and 40% want higher house prices and rents (landlords and owners). The same is true for taxes and immigration and crime/justice and welfare etc. So governments are desperate NOT to do anything on most issues. And they are desperate to do SOMETHING (as a distraction) on issues seen as more neutral and less…

>40% want lower house prices and rents (tenants and would be buyers) and 40% want higher house prices and rents (landlords and owners). I think it is more that the electorate and their agents don't know how (or disagree on how) to keep housing affordable or more precisely don't know how to avoid passing laws and regulations that have the unintended effect of raising the cost of housing.

Rising house prices are routinely presented as a good news story by the Tory tabloids. To a generation of homeowners, their house is a store of vast amounts of unearned wealth and they bitterly oppose anything that might erode that wealth.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-14735531/British-ho...

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