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Delete FROM users WHERE location = 'Iran';

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Re: Delete FROM users WHERE location = 'Iran';

#111

Post by jazzyjackson »

reeredfdfdf wrote: post #89
preisschild wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Nothing changed This is not true. The sanctions definitely hurt countries like Cuba or Russia. They have a far harder time growing their economy. Cuba is stuck in the last century and often has total blackouts that last for days. Russia needs to beg countries like Iran or North Korea now for imports.

Yet the ruling elites and military still enjoy decent quality of life, it´s mostly the ordinary people who suffer. In case of Russia that´s okay since large parts of the population genuinely support the war, but I´m not so sure about Iran and Cuba, where most are not supportive of their governments anyway.

The point isn't necessarily to make leadership suffer, but rather to prevent suffering of everyone who might be threatened by a strong Cuba/Iran/North Korea

Re: Delete FROM users WHERE location = 'Iran';

#112

Post by yawpitch »

barrenko wrote: post #6
OccamsMirror wrote: post #2

It must be really frustrating be on the receiving end of sanctions. The ugly truth about sanctions is that they punish the people more than the aristocracy. But they're still better than wars.

The point is to get people in those contries to overthrow their leadership. And if your're someone sliding into nasty leadership / government situation you have to realize there will be a consequence to that and that the perception of the ruling party can never be separated from the perception of the people.

> And if your're someone sliding into nasty leadership / government situation you have to realize there will be a consequence to that and that the perception of the ruling party can never be separated from the perception of the people.

Especially if you’ve just been dumb enough to re-elect that nasty leadership / government on behalf of (and at the behest of) the people who benefit off having that ruling party in office.

Re: Delete FROM users WHERE location = 'Iran';

#113

Post by adastra22 »

yawpitch wrote: post #97
adastra22 wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your comment is understandable as a foreigner! Look up our federal prison system sometime. The description is apt. You either kill someone, or become someone's bitch on the first day, then you'll be alright. (It's an Office Space reference, btw, but our prisons are genuinely inhumane and not rehabilitative.)

Your reply to that comment is understandable as an American… in that you got your understanding of your own prison system from your own popular media. Also in the assumption that a foreigner would or could get an Office Space reference, unless they live in a country America has already successfully culturally colonized. The point is that the homophobic trope doesn’t add anything to the information given, while it doe…

Three points on that.

First, in this context the popular image, not reality, is what actually matters. Why do people not risk breaking sanctions? Because they don't want to risk prison. Why do Americans fear prison so much? Because of how it is represented in popular media, true or not.

Second, sexual violence in American prisons is a very real concern: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prison_rape_in_the_United_Stat...

Finally, I fail to see how it is a homophobic trope? Nobody wants to be sexually assaulted. It's about the violation, not the act itself.

Re: Delete FROM users WHERE location = 'Iran';

#115

Post by adastra22 »

derektank wrote: post #108
adastra22 wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your comment is understandable as a foreigner! Look up our federal prison system sometime. The description is apt. You either kill someone, or become someone's bitch on the first day, then you'll be alright. (It's an Office Space reference, btw, but our prisons are genuinely inhumane and not rehabilitative.)

Federal prisons are generally quite desirable when compared to state prisons or local jails, especially if you're convicted of a white collar financial crime. They don't call if Club Fed for nothing.

That's only true of minimum security prisons.

Re: Delete FROM users WHERE location = 'Iran';

#116

Post by t1E9mE7JTRjf »

It's a sad story all round. I hope the world gets more decentralised, so that people get less caught up in the politics of others. I can't remember the exact quote, about world war 1 or 2, but it was along the lines of "war is when people who don't know each other fight, for people who do know each other". Hits hard.

Re: Delete FROM users WHERE location = 'Iran';

#117

Post by mirzap »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #100
mirzap wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sanctions don't work. Syria didn't collapse because of sanctions, but because of a very long civil war and, more importantly, a sudden imbalance in external forces (Russia was preoccupied with Ukraine). I don't think there has ever been a case where a country, or its people, changed the regime because of sanctions. Never. North Korea, Iran, Cuba, Palestine, and much of Africa are examples. Wars and revolutions change…

You’re refuting a fairly robust study with vibes. > Syria didn't collapse because of sanctions Nobody said it did. > don't think there has ever been a case where a country, or its people, changed the regime because of sanctions. Never Literally a source with a page number, and, in a neighbouring comment, a table with the specifics. Like, if you had a button that could convert the world’s hot wars into mutual embargoe…

No. I wouldn't. Because it makes it easier for the stronger power to dominate without hot wars. Sanctions cost the U.S. very little when used against Iran, but for Iranians they are extremely hard and disproportionately expensive. A hot war would be far more costly for the U.S., and the higher the expected cost, the less likely policymakers are to choose it.

Re: Delete FROM users WHERE location = 'Iran';

#118

Post by JumpCrisscross »

mirzap wrote: post #117
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You’re refuting a fairly robust study with vibes. > Syria didn't collapse because of sanctions Nobody said it did. > don't think there has ever been a case where a country, or its people, changed the regime because of sanctions. Never Literally a source with a page number, and, in a neighbouring comment, a table with the specifics. Like, if you had a button that could convert the world’s hot wars into mutual embargoe…

No. I wouldn't. Because it makes it easier for the stronger power to dominate without hot wars. Sanctions cost the U.S. very little when used against Iran, but for Iranians they are extremely hard and disproportionately expensive. A hot war would be far more costly for the U.S., and the higher the expected cost, the less likely policymakers are to choose it.

> A hot war would be far more costly for the U.S.

…we just had a hot war with Iran. It probably cost us less than our sanctions.

I’ll say this: you’re consistent in your position and I respect that. I just don’t think many people share the view that people getting physically torn apart by munitions is better than have a less-comfortable, possibly borderline, life.

Re: Delete FROM users WHERE location = 'Iran';

#119

Post by tobyhinloopen »

theshrike79 wrote: post #85
slg wrote: post #64

>Iranian IPs are blocked here, due to your decision to arm Russia with drones so that they can indiscriminately massacre civilians. The "your decision" in that response is really off-putting. I know the law is what it is with sanctions like this. However, it is a failing of basic human empathy to blame other common citizens of a country for the actions of their government while we almost certainly do not endorse all…

[flagged]

Proudly written from a western country with a functional democracy. If it was that easy, there wouldn't be shitty countries everywhere.

Re: Delete FROM users WHERE location = 'Iran';

#120

Post by ivan_gammel »

don_esteban wrote: post #52
barrenko wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The point is to get people in those contries to overthrow their leadership. And if your're someone sliding into nasty leadership / government situation you have to realize there will be a consequence to that and that the perception of the ruling party can never be separated from the perception of the people.

"The point is to get people in those contries to overthrow their leadership." No, that's for consumption by population of the sanctioning country. The people in the know know very well that that never works. The point is for every other country in the world to see how much it hurts if you don't follow the wishes of USA. Classic mafia strategy. The exception were the sanctions on Russia at the start of the Ukraine war…

Swift wasn’t blocked. There were targeted sanctions against certain banks.
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