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Cloudflare is sponsoring Ladybird and Omarchy

blog.cloudflare.com

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Re: Cloudflare is sponsoring Ladybird and Omarchy

#111

Post by bigyabai »

cosmic_cheese wrote: post #106
diath wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem with Firefox is that the money has to go through Mozilla, and Mozilla is not spending most of that money on Firefox. You cannot sponsor the development of Firefox directly, so your money ends up being wasted.

Firefox/Gecko also just can’t be as relevant as a Chrome/Blink competitor since Gecko doesn’t support embedding on desktop operating systems, which precludes things like Electron-style wrapping and hybrid apps. It’s a fatal flaw that Mozilla doesn’t seem to have any interest in addressing.

There is nothing wrong with using CEF/Electron for some apps and then browser-based Firefox clients for the other ones.

Re: Cloudflare is sponsoring Ladybird and Omarchy

#112

Post by parineum »

xandrius wrote: post #86
robinhood wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't understand why we always assume bad faith. I wish more companies were like Cloudflare actually - trying to balance the need of revenues while trying to do good for internet and open source as a whole. As a normal user with a few sites, I'm glad they provide what they provide to block bots, attacks and everything AI.

There is no way you didn't write this comment while laughing out loud. For-profit companies care about profits for their shareholders, that's it. Heck, even non-profit often tend to value more profit than their integrity or cause but that's a topic for another day. I wish this wasn't the case but even good-willed individuals at the helm of for-profits are forced to pursue profit and avoid anything clearly leading to…

You're severely misinformed and parotting misinformed meme interpretations of fiduciary duty.

Integrity and a healthy market align with fiduciary duty as long as one can make the argument that it's in the long term interest of the company. It's really, really difficult to find examples of a person being held liable for not upholding their fiduciary duty because what can be argued as good for the long term success of the company involves a lot of prognostication.

Fiduciary duty is there to prevent things like a CEO choosing to oberpay his cousin's company that has no history in the market for things they've never done before when there is an obviously better option available.

Companies that act poorly, as you describe, do so out of their own desire, not because they are forced to by any sort of duty.

Re: Cloudflare is sponsoring Ladybird and Omarchy

#113

Post by skybrian »

cosmic_cheese wrote: post #87
vulcan01 wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cloudflare supporting Ladybird makes sense for the same reasons that Valve invests in Proton. Cloudflare's job is easier if everyone standardizes on a few approved browsers, but right now the three major browser engines are controlled by Google (IIRC most of Mozilla's funding comes from Google) and Apple, just as Valve's Steam is heavily dependent on Microsoft's Windows. Both companies are basically hedging against f…

To add to this, Apple’s share of the control is minimal and precarious. A timeline where Google is the sole web engine authority could easily become reality and is even likely. Hedging on a promising upstart makes a lot of sense.

I haven’t seen any signs that Apple will abandon Safari, have you? Also, a browser that uses Chromium could put a halt to Google’s plans if they wanted. The easiest way would be to stop upgrading and just port over security patches. (Sure, it brings progress to a halt, but this is unlikely to matter to web developers in the short run and it would get people’s attention.)

They aren’t going to do this, though, so long as new releases of Chromium are reasonable.

Re: Cloudflare is sponsoring Ladybird and Omarchy

#114

Post by cosmic_cheese »

bigyabai wrote: post #111
cosmic_cheese wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Firefox/Gecko also just can’t be as relevant as a Chrome/Blink competitor since Gecko doesn’t support embedding on desktop operating systems, which precludes things like Electron-style wrapping and hybrid apps. It’s a fatal flaw that Mozilla doesn’t seem to have any interest in addressing.

There is nothing wrong with using CEF/Electron for some apps and then browser-based Firefox clients for the other ones.

Big names like Slack and Spotify can’t choose to use a Gecko-based Electron/CEF alternative though, which limits its potential impact.

Re: Cloudflare is sponsoring Ladybird and Omarchy

#116

Post by scared_together »

bigyabai wrote: post #107
cosmic_cheese wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To add to this, Apple’s share of the control is minimal and precarious. A timeline where Google is the sole web engine authority could easily become reality and is even likely. Hedging on a promising upstart makes a lot of sense.

Apple isn't the only one standing in the way of a Google hegemony. If they are, then the web is already fucked since neither corporation has a benevolent track record pertaining to Open Source. Apple just can't compete without steering privileges that are equally harmful to the open web.

> Apple isn't the only one standing in the way of a Google hegemony.

Who else would you consider?

Chromium-based browsers from companies other than Google are still contributing to Google’s hegemony. And Mozilla is funded by Google.

Re: Cloudflare is sponsoring Ladybird and Omarchy

#117

Post by cosmic_cheese »

bigyabai wrote: post #107
cosmic_cheese wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To add to this, Apple’s share of the control is minimal and precarious. A timeline where Google is the sole web engine authority could easily become reality and is even likely. Hedging on a promising upstart makes a lot of sense.

Apple isn't the only one standing in the way of a Google hegemony. If they are, then the web is already fucked since neither corporation has a benevolent track record pertaining to Open Source. Apple just can't compete without steering privileges that are equally harmful to the open web.

If web devs get permission to start ignoring Safari (which currently sits at ~20% marketshare), there’s no way they’re going to care about Firefox which doesn’t have even a fifth as much. If Safari falls so does Firefox.

Re: Cloudflare is sponsoring Ladybird and Omarchy

#118

Post by cosmic_cheese »

skybrian wrote: post #113
cosmic_cheese wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To add to this, Apple’s share of the control is minimal and precarious. A timeline where Google is the sole web engine authority could easily become reality and is even likely. Hedging on a promising upstart makes a lot of sense.

I haven’t seen any signs that Apple will abandon Safari, have you? Also, a browser that uses Chromium could put a halt to Google’s plans if they wanted. The easiest way would be to stop upgrading and just port over security patches. (Sure, it brings progress to a halt, but this is unlikely to matter to web developers in the short run and it would get people’s attention.) They aren’t going to do this, though, so long…

If/when Apple is forced to start allowing Blink on iOS globally, all it takes is a hearty marketing push from Google and devs putting “best viewed in Chrome” badges on their sites for Safari’s marketshare (and with it, Apple’s influence) to plummet.

Re: Cloudflare is sponsoring Ladybird and Omarchy

#119

Post by nomdep »

indigodaddy wrote: post #9
ForHackernews wrote: post #2

Ladybird is great, but Omarchy is a weird choice. Why can't DHH / Basecamp sponsor David's hobby distro if he wants? The browser ecosystem is dangerously centralized and another independent rendering engine would be welcome. In contrast, I don't see the value in yet another flavor-of-the-week Linux distro. Even sponsoring Arch directly would make more sense here.

Also isn't it just a script to install some stuff and customize

Like Dropbox was "just an sftp server"

Re: Cloudflare is sponsoring Ladybird and Omarchy

#120

Post by hakunin »

MitPitt wrote: post #38

These 2 projects are so different in complexity. Ladybird is a foundational ground-up browser, meanwhile Omarchy is just an opinionated arch setup. I wonder why they were both mentioned in one article.

For one, I don't think complexity is determinative of impact. At least I hope not, otherwise my startup ideas are all DOA. For two, Omarchy is becoming more complex as more maintainers come in to write way more automation. You can kind of foresee where this is going: an Arch wrapper slowly growing into effectively a separate OS that's pushing other software to accommodate its choices. (See getting chromium to support live theme reloading, trying to get Fortnight to support Linux, etc).

IOW, Ladybird has depth, Omarchy has breadth.

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