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Why is Venus hell and Earth an Eden?

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Re: Why is Venus hell and Earth an Eden?

#111

Post by WalterBright »

tasty_freeze wrote: post #95
WalterBright wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The crazy ones are the ones that get sh*t done. Musk was initially written off initially as crazy for every one of his successful business ventures. And it's his money to spend as he sees fit.

Walter, I never said he couldn't spend his money how he wants, so that really isn't a counter argument to what I was claiming. Personally, I think most people (Musk is just one) who thinks terraforming Mars is realistic have read too much science fiction and are more enamored of the cool Robinson Crusoe aspect more than it would really serve any purpose. As for "every one" of his successful business ventures being ca…

> Did people say that was crazy?

Nobody did it before.

> acquired by Paypal, was that considered a crazy business?

Before he proved it was profitable. BTW, every business venture I started was considered crazy by my peers.

> Grok

Musk was an early investor in AI.

The Boring Company is successful. It has found a profitable market boring holes for infrastructure cables and pipes.

People said him buying Twitter was crazy. Oops! (What annoyed me about that was I had some Twitter stock, and it was forcibly sold to Musk. I wanted X stock instead! Alas, it is private.)

I put my money where my mouth is. I've invested in TSLA and am a happy shareholder.

Re: Why is Venus hell and Earth an Eden?

#112

Post by iisan7 »

gorfian_robot wrote: post #88
duxup wrote: post #41

Russian missions to Venus IMO are some of the coolest missions. That's some brave stuff to try to pull off.

can you apply 'brave' to unmanned missions? challenging, yes.

I think it's still brave to attempt a mission with significant chance of failure that risks resources, careers, and reputation. And had it been a _manned_ mission to Venus, the adjective that comes to mind is not brave but pointless, foolish, or sadistic.

Re: Why is Venus hell and Earth an Eden?

#113

Post by djmips »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #78
eru wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The lack of tectonics would only be a problem if you want your terraforming to be 'one and done'. If you admit that terraforming, even after it's 'done', will require an ongoing maintenance effort, it's simple (but not easy). Eg you can use satellites to spin up an artificial magnetic field to shield against solar wind. However, I suspect terraforming planets is a waste. Far more bang for your buck to build habitats…

> If you admit that terraforming, even after it's 'done', will require an ongoing maintenance effort The Earth hasn't always been hospitale to humans, much less technological civilisation. Chances are, we'll have to do similar "maintenance" at home, too. (Easiest to grasp: deflecting asteroids.) > I suspect terraforming planets is a waste. Far more bang for your buck to build habitats in space from scratch This comes…

So we'll need responsible stewardship over Earth's Habitability? No problem!

Re: Why is Venus hell and Earth an Eden?

#114

Post by WalterBright »

WalterBright wrote: post #111
tasty_freeze wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Walter, I never said he couldn't spend his money how he wants, so that really isn't a counter argument to what I was claiming. Personally, I think most people (Musk is just one) who thinks terraforming Mars is realistic have read too much science fiction and are more enamored of the cool Robinson Crusoe aspect more than it would really serve any purpose. As for "every one" of his successful business ventures being ca…

> Did people say that was crazy? Nobody did it before. > acquired by Paypal, was that considered a crazy business? Before he proved it was profitable. BTW, every business venture I started was considered crazy by my peers. > Grok Musk was an early investor in AI. The Boring Company is successful. It has found a profitable market boring holes for infrastructure cables and pipes. People said him buying Twitter was craz…

There is a long list of crazy ideas that businessmen took on, that became so successful everyone later thinks that those ideas were obvious.

Such as an internet phone. Like a personal computer. Like a Xerox copier. Like jet engines. Like a pencil with an eraser on the other end. Like interchangeable parts. Like the circular saw. Like electric power utilities.

Re: Why is Venus hell and Earth an Eden?

#115

Post by WalterBright »

tasty_freeze wrote: post #95
WalterBright wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The crazy ones are the ones that get sh*t done. Musk was initially written off initially as crazy for every one of his successful business ventures. And it's his money to spend as he sees fit.

Walter, I never said he couldn't spend his money how he wants, so that really isn't a counter argument to what I was claiming. Personally, I think most people (Musk is just one) who thinks terraforming Mars is realistic have read too much science fiction and are more enamored of the cool Robinson Crusoe aspect more than it would really serve any purpose. As for "every one" of his successful business ventures being ca…

BTW, I think Musk's biggest barrier to getting to Mars is his age. He's running out of time. He can start it, but I expect others will finish it.

What he's doing is freakin' awesome, and I wish for him (and humanity) to achieve it!

Re: Why is Venus hell and Earth an Eden?

#116

Post by yazantapuz »

rdtsc wrote: post #62

> For a time, the mantle would get hotter, since the shell around it would trap heat generated by radioactively decaying compounds inside it. As heat accumulates in the interior, the Earth in Kane’s simulations would experience an uptick in volcanism lasting for about 15 million years. That totally surprised to me. I had no idea radioactive decay played such a role for earth. It turns out I must have fallen sleep in…

If i remember right, according to one of Asimov's Foundation sequels, the Earth was unique due to its high level natural radioactivity, which allowed it to develop an ecosystem more vibrant than any other planet in the galaxy.

Re: Why is Venus hell and Earth an Eden?

#117

Post by eru »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #103
eru wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you want a backup, why use Mars? You can create habitats from scratch, or you can have colonies on the moon. Even Mercury is better than Mars.

> Even Mercury is better than Mars ...how? It's further. It has no atmosphere. There is no water or carbon.

How is Mercury further? On average it's the closest planet to earth.

Mars's atmosphere is pretty useless for humans.

Re: Why is Venus hell and Earth an Eden?

#118

Post by eru »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #78
eru wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The lack of tectonics would only be a problem if you want your terraforming to be 'one and done'. If you admit that terraforming, even after it's 'done', will require an ongoing maintenance effort, it's simple (but not easy). Eg you can use satellites to spin up an artificial magnetic field to shield against solar wind. However, I suspect terraforming planets is a waste. Far more bang for your buck to build habitats…

> If you admit that terraforming, even after it's 'done', will require an ongoing maintenance effort The Earth hasn't always been hospitale to humans, much less technological civilisation. Chances are, we'll have to do similar "maintenance" at home, too. (Easiest to grasp: deflecting asteroids.) > I suspect terraforming planets is a waste. Far more bang for your buck to build habitats in space from scratch This comes…

> This comes down to how biology works in zero and partial g.

Why? Just spin the thing.

Re: Why is Venus hell and Earth an Eden?

#119

Post by eru »

kulahan wrote: post #57
eru wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The lack of tectonics would only be a problem if you want your terraforming to be 'one and done'. If you admit that terraforming, even after it's 'done', will require an ongoing maintenance effort, it's simple (but not easy). Eg you can use satellites to spin up an artificial magnetic field to shield against solar wind. However, I suspect terraforming planets is a waste. Far more bang for your buck to build habitats…

It's worth mentioning that one of the more sane ways to terraform a planet is to redirect specific comets to crash into the planet. It would be "free" in the sense that redirecting an orbit is already actively being studied by NASA for planetary defense reasons. To actually terraform a planet in this method would be unreasonably affordable compared to anything else I've ever heard. edit: Plus, it's nice to split our…

> Plus, it's nice to split our eggs into multiple planetary baskets.

Multiple baskets is good, but why planetary?

Re: Why is Venus hell and Earth an Eden?

#120

Post by sleepy_keita »

yazantapuz wrote: post #116
rdtsc wrote: post #62

> For a time, the mantle would get hotter, since the shell around it would trap heat generated by radioactively decaying compounds inside it. As heat accumulates in the interior, the Earth in Kane’s simulations would experience an uptick in volcanism lasting for about 15 million years. That totally surprised to me. I had no idea radioactive decay played such a role for earth. It turns out I must have fallen sleep in…

If i remember right, according to one of Asimov's Foundation sequels, the Earth was unique due to its high level natural radioactivity, which allowed it to develop an ecosystem more vibrant than any other planet in the galaxy.

Was just rereading - it was the radioactivity and the large natural satellite that was unique in his universe. Tides are interesting because once you have life in the oceans, it's a kind of forcing function to adapt to land conditions
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