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They Thought They Were Free (1955)

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Re: They Thought They Were Free (1955)

#111

Post by lif »

FrustratedMonky wrote: post #75
lukan wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Mein Kampf was published 1924 and distributed broadly. There was not much hidden, the goal of making a big war in the east to conquer new land for the Aryans was there in big letters in the open. His views towards jews likewise. So they knew. Maybe largely did not wanted to know. And they did celebrate the victories of the german army as their own. They only stopped celebrating after the victories stopped happening a…

Yes. Also, Project 2025 was openly published. Anybody could read it. They aren't hiding the goals. People just don't want to bother with it.

PNAC (Project for the New American Century) published an interesting 'report' in 2000

Re: They Thought They Were Free (1955)

#112

Post by larrydag »

brightball wrote: post #55
tobias3 wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a German outside observer I can tell you there is only one side going down the facist path. The "other side" isn't great either. Would be great to have a sane alternative, I guess.

I think the sane alternative has long been modeled by the US Constitution. The real test is how any model handles corruption and expunges it because no matter the ideology, people are in charge and people are corruptible. The only real model that can work is one that minimizes the power of those in charge.

The US Constitutional government is meant to be slow, methodical and gridlocked. It is supposed to take enormous compromise to get any decision created into law.

Re: They Thought They Were Free (1955)

#113

Post by ethical_source »

nerdponx wrote: post #94
tobias3 wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a German outside observer I can tell you there is only one side going down the facist path. The "other side" isn't great either. Would be great to have a sane alternative, I guess.

This line of reason is actually becoming more frequently used to justify things. For years, the right wing propaganda machine has been establishing the concept that conservatism and America as a whole is besieged by authoritarian leftists and their smug out-of-outch enablers the liberals. THEY are the authoritarians and they are seeking to destroy America. WE are its defenders, and in the face of existential threat,…

Are you just going to ignore the 2016-2024 state-directed viewpoint censorship on social media?

Re: They Thought They Were Free (1955)

#114

Post by brightball »

nerdponx wrote: post #94
tobias3 wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a German outside observer I can tell you there is only one side going down the facist path. The "other side" isn't great either. Would be great to have a sane alternative, I guess.

This line of reason is actually becoming more frequently used to justify things. For years, the right wing propaganda machine has been establishing the concept that conservatism and America as a whole is besieged by authoritarian leftists and their smug out-of-outch enablers the liberals. THEY are the authoritarians and they are seeking to destroy America. WE are its defenders, and in the face of existential threat,…

Similar to calling everyone Nazi’s and fascists who has an opposing point of view?

When you take a step back it becomes very clear that this escalating messaging is being push onto both sides of the political isle to create these feelings.

I remember in the span of two weeks seeing almost identical posts urging people to train because you are going to have to fight. The wording was almost identical only one post said “leftists” and the other “fascists”.

My only question who is pushing the messaging and who does it benefit?

Re: They Thought They Were Free (1955)

#115

Post by scandox »

nkrisc wrote: post #70
hagbard_c wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

Is "gender ideology" what we're now calling the idea that a tiny minority of people want to live their lives a little differently that the rest of us without harming anyone and mostly be left alone?

I think the reality of what has gone on has several faces which are all worth thinking about:

1. A group of people that want to be different without harming anyone and be left alone

2. A group of people demanding certain specific and new legal rights with respect to how they are different

3. A group of people advocating for new social and linguistic norms around said difference

3. A group of people socially shaming people who failed to respect said norms

4. A group of people socially shaming those who opposed new specific legal rights

5. A group of people vocally opposing said legal and social changes

6. A group of people advocating legal restrictions to prevent or punish said different life choices

7. A group of people fighting said restrictions

Re: They Thought They Were Free (1955)

#116

Post by m0llusk »

This is a very intense piece, but misses some critical points. Germany after WWI was suffering terribly under reparations that European Allies and the US insisted on. Previously wealthy professionals went broke and begged in the streets for scraps. When Hitler swept aside reparations there was a great economic updraft as Germans rebuilt their economy and got back to work. The politics of the time was driven by the economy. The US appears to be entering into a period of stagnation and a breakdown of global trading upon which it had become dependent and that is a very different situation with economic factors hitting politics in ways unlike past crises.

Re: They Thought They Were Free (1955)

#118

Post by bboygravity »

jackstraw42 wrote: post #24
JKCalhoun wrote: post #6

"…it consumed all one’s energies, coming on top of the work one really wanted to do. You can see how easy it was, then, not to think about fundamental things. One had no time." Well, that resonated just a bit. Oh well, back to doomscrolling.

Excerpts from this have popped up in Reddit comments quite a bit the last few years. At first it did feel out of place, but now I'm going going back and listening to Dan Carlin talk about the headspace of society before something like Nazi Germany happens. With all the Executive Orders and lawlessness from the Executive Branch and throughout our federal government with this new regime, it's pretty clear they're attem…

[flagged]

Re: They Thought They Were Free (1955)

#119

Post by stackbutterflow »

Amezarak wrote: post #30
fifteen1506 wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't recall the government using FCC to fire someone. I'd rather wish the previous governments had closed down Fox News, though. PS: not an USA citizen.

That’s the problem. Everyone makes tendentious arguments about how their exact reasoning and mechanism is justified, while the other sides’ is not justified. The outcome is the same. Edit: I have been rate limited so I cannot reply, but note I was referring to prior administrations coercing media companies to censor and deplatform people, so yes, it is functionally the same whether it’s the FCC or Congress or other e…

> The outcome is the same.

That's the problem. The outcome is not the same. It couldn't be more different. That's how one side knows they're right.

Re: They Thought They Were Free (1955)

#120

Post by ezekiel68 »

ethical_source wrote: post #108
zetanor wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Free societies are not ruled through masses.

Who gets to rule, then, and why? Your position that the masses shouldn't rule is at odds with a government legitimized by the consent of the government. Why should I or anyone else obey a government I don't consider legitimate?

Those who watch the Watchers.
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