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Vapor chamber tech keeps iPhone 17 Pro cool

spectrum.ieee.org

111–120 of 305 posts

Re: Vapor chamber tech keeps iPhone 17 Pro cool

#111
17th iteration in less than 20 years, billions produced. About a billion already 'obsolete'.

Seems fair to ask: what's the expected lifespan of an iPhone these days?

Does anyone here have insight as to what percent of materials used to make them is actually recycled?

Re: Vapor chamber tech keeps iPhone 17 Pro cool

#112
post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Watching that video, the first thought I have is "So much engineering and I still need to buy a phone case with my new phone?" I'm guessing phone cases are still pretty much required if you drop your phone once or twice a month onto cement/asphalt/marble/etc from pocket height. I would be really curious to hear the internal debate at Apple wrt design tradeoffs + durability. E.g. how much of the iPhone design is only…

Cases aren’t necessary, have not been for a while. They don’t actually protect your screen.

Most big screen damage happens from things hitting the edge of the phone. Cases prevent this. Also, the edge is the one area not really protected by screen protectors.

Re: Vapor chamber tech keeps iPhone 17 Pro cool

#113
post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Back when the early iPods actually contained a spinning hard drive, they had something similar. If it detected a fall, it would quickly park the hard drive to avoid damage.

Same for ThinkPads.

And MacBook Pros.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sudden_Motion_Sensor

Though I don't recall iPods having that feature, nor can I find anything online supporting that claim.

Re: Vapor chamber tech keeps iPhone 17 Pro cool

#114
post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Samsung is not Apple. Relatively no one cares about Samsung outside Korea.

You are very from US to think that. Samsung strong in Europe.

Tell me when was the last time you heard boomers talk about Samsung. Never happened. Now how many times has nana mentioned "the iPhone" specifically?

Also not from the US, I live in Thailand. Everyone wants an iPhone. Those who can't afford it buy Oppo, etc.

Samsung may be "strong" in Europe but it's just because it's colorful and/or cheaper. You live in the HN bubble if you think that people care about specs and not brands/price. The choice is generally "Either Apple or whatever else in my budget"

Re: Vapor chamber tech keeps iPhone 17 Pro cool

#115
post #49
post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How do you propose making a device that people wouldn't feel the need to put a case on? You could make the whole thing out of rubber but that's still going to take cosmetic damage that people want to protect the device from. You could make it easy to replace that rubber... but at what point is that not just functionally the same as a case?

> How do you propose making a device that people wouldn't feel the need to put a case on? If the screen were reasonably scratch + shatter proof, I think most people wouldn't feel the need to wear a case.

That's been the case for several years now. Gone caseless with iPhone X, 12, and 13 Pros for years now and have gotten some scratches to the sides and a small crack on the back glass here or there, but no significant screen scratches or breaks. Some scuffing around the edges is it.

Last time I broke the front screen of a phone was an HTC Evo.

Re: Vapor chamber tech keeps iPhone 17 Pro cool

#116
post #84

Pretty sure this is 99% a reaction to LLMs. On the older ones things get really spicy with even short on device LLM runs.

I've noticed my iPhone get hot the most while using the camera. Especially while taking video, but after a few photos it gets hot as well. I was on vacations last week in a tropical country and took a lot of photos with my 16 Pro and it gets so hot after just a few photos that it starts lagging A LOT due to the throttling.

I'm sure this is handy for LLM usage, but this was a problem before those were a thing I'd say.

Re: Vapor chamber tech keeps iPhone 17 Pro cool

#117
post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Watching that video, the first thought I have is "So much engineering and I still need to buy a phone case with my new phone?" I'm guessing phone cases are still pretty much required if you drop your phone once or twice a month onto cement/asphalt/marble/etc from pocket height. I would be really curious to hear the internal debate at Apple wrt design tradeoffs + durability. E.g. how much of the iPhone design is only…

Cases are great because everyone can get one that matches their risk level and frequency of drops. Having a sacrificial outer layer that I can replace for $10 is also preferable to letting the $1000 phone take the damage.

Yeah, I never understand these caseless discussions.

I went caseless once since I didn't realize my case would arrive a week after I bought the phone.

The phone was slippery (couldn't temporarily rest it on my knee), and I found myself inspecting the restaurant/bar table any time I put the phone down after that one night I placed it right into a puddle of beer condensation and some mysterious food that got in the mic on the back of the phone and grossed me out.

The phone could be indestructible to drops and it still wouldn't solve those issues.

Re: Vapor chamber tech keeps iPhone 17 Pro cool

#118
post #16

This is a heat pipe. A technology from the 60s. Your laptop almost certainly has heat pipes in it. They usually use alcohol rather than water as the phase change material though. The (relatively) novel thing is that it's packaged small enough to be in a phone. I suspect the only reason it hasn't been used in handhelds more is because the TDP of mobile processors wasn't high enough to warrant it.

Vapor chambers and heat pipes use some of the same physics concepts, but a vapor chamber is significantly more effective for spreading heat across a large area. They’re also harder to manufacture and more complex. Have you ever seen a CPU or GPU heat sink that has 5-6 heat pipes in parallel because they need to spread the head over a larger area? A vapor chamber is an upgrade over heat pipes in applications that aren…

Perhaps it's just that in retrospect, it seems a relatively small jump from heat pumps to vapor chambers.

Do you know if the vapor chambers operate at reduced internal atmospheric pressure? Unless I'm missing something, in order to get the liquid-gas phase boundary to a useful temperature, you'd have to bring the pressure down to, idk, 10kPa (boiling point of water is ~50C)? That would complicate manufacturing for sure, and also means that any leaks are catastrophic for your thermal solution.

Also I would be remiss if I did not note that the refrigerant designation of water is R-718.

Re: Vapor chamber tech keeps iPhone 17 Pro cool

#119
post #78
post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’ve been caseless for a while and have had a couple of drops and the phone has been fine. When I eventually upgrade my phone, I’ll probably stay caseless, or add minimal protection. Mainly cause if the increasingly rare catastrophic drop happens, it’d be unpleasant to deal with. I do like some cases for their design elements, I might use one to just further personalize my phone.

I have been caseless forever. If I drop the phone and it breaks I’ll bring it to repairs (I used to do it myself but it’s more complicated now and I don’t have the time anymore anyways).

Well, yes, we all know that you can go caseless if paying for repairs or new phones is within your budget.

The point of a case is to avoid having to pay for those repairs.

Re: Vapor chamber tech keeps iPhone 17 Pro cool

#120
> In Apple’s version, a small amount of deionized water is sealed in the chamber. […] Water is often used in vapor chambers, though sometimes other materials are mixed in to prevent it from freezing and cracking the seal, Chiriac says.

So Apple uses deionized water, while others add in some other chemicals to prevent it from freezing. So how will the new iPhone deal with freezing temperatures?

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