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Internal emails reveal Ticketmaster helped scalpers jack up prices, FTC says

arstechnica.com

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Re: Internal emails reveal Ticketmaster helped scalpers jack up prices, FTC says

#111

Post by varenc »

rolandog wrote: post #88
prmoustache wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What kind of show sell $700 tickets? Does that include an escort?

I know! Greedflation is out of control. That used to be the cost of decently prized intercontinental plane tickets 6 years ago (not the cheapest!).

Greed is sort of the root of capitalism? Every entity working in their economic best interest. IMHO the problem here is Ticketmaster's monopoly status and the total lack of competition, which otherwise is the only thing applying downward pressure on prices in capitalism.

Re: Internal emails reveal Ticketmaster helped scalpers jack up prices, FTC says

#112

Post by KumaBear »

smelendez wrote: post #91
KumaBear wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Solution that might be anti user friendly. Tickets are bought and assigned to a persons name at time of purchase. They can only be refunded at cost and resold at cost to buyers. Release of tickets refunded shall be reposted for resell at a random time after attempting a refund. This will however allow people to pay for bots that will purchase tickets on their behalf. But I believe a verification system can prevent th…

The problem for seated events is variations on, four people buy tickets together, seats ABCD, and the people in seats B and D drop out. They have friends who would buy the empty seats, but instead end up with a stranger in between them. Or two people buy seats together, one can’t make it, and now the other person is stuck sitting with a stranger. And they have a friend who also wants to go who is also sitting alone.…

You can swap whose name is assigned on tickets you own. But you cannot change the names of anyone. It’s the only way to prevent scalping. It’s not costumer friendly but it’s also anti-scalper

Re: Internal emails reveal Ticketmaster helped scalpers jack up prices, FTC says

#113

Post by prewett »

This not to say that Ticketmaster is not scummy (and the article elucidates some of their scumminess). But this seems like partly a consequence of "ticket stabilization". As is commonly cited on HN, rent "stabilization" distorts the market and leads to all kinds of problems, like lack of available apartments and people living where they do not want to live because it's financially infeasible/unattractive to move to where they want to be. Clearly ticket prices are too cheap, or the scalpers could not make any money. As one would expect, selling under market value creates arbitrage traders.

It's totally Ticketmaster scumminess if transfer fees are ridiculous (see pavel_lishin's post). Likewise if Ticketmaster has difference standards for Big Scalp versus retail scalping. But the existence of scalpers (arbitrage traders) is inevitable if a) tickets are underpriced and b) tickets are transferable. You'd have apartment scalpers for rent-stabilized apartments if leases were transferable (which they are not).

When demand (concert-goers) greatly outstrips supply (seats), you have three options: long queues (the historical socialist approach) or lotteries (the egalitarian approach), high prices (the market economy approach), or corruption (the current approach). There is no realistic solution that makes everyone happy, but you can choose the kind of unhappiness you get. There is a strong case to be made that the artists do not want to be seen as greedy merchants, so they underprice their tickets and offload the anger onto Ticketmaster (see kevinsync's post).

Re: Internal emails reveal Ticketmaster helped scalpers jack up prices, FTC says

#114

Post by analog31 »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #51
yard2010 wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Their whole business is based on bullying, dark patterns and ripoff, they either go out of business and become homeless or turn out to be the next president of the united states.

> Their whole business is based on bullying, dark patterns and ripoff No. It’s based on monopoly. There are a limited number of venues that can host a modern superstar, generally no more than one per geography, and Ticketmaster made it a point to represent all of them. Which means any modern superstar and their fans must work through Ticketmaster. Which, in turn, enables this nonsense. The cause is monopoly. Not “bul…

It's also a weird kind of monopoly, in that the good itself has no meaningful elasticity.

When people talk about ticket prices, I always tell them: "Come hear my band for 15 bucks at the door, and free street parking." But of course I know that it's not a comparable experience.

Re: Internal emails reveal Ticketmaster helped scalpers jack up prices, FTC says

#115

Post by fireflash38 »

saaaaaam wrote: post #90
prmoustache wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What kind of show sell $700 tickets? Does that include an escort?

Michael Rapino, the CEO of Live Nation regularly boasted about how for sports events people take pride in paying thousands of dollars for tickets near the front, and how he wishes it was the same for music. Live Nation had been engaging in a venue refit programme to make a higher percentage of venue seating - 40% or so - ‘premium’ seating where they can charge far higher rates. As someone in this thread pointed out t…

It's a logarithmic curve, but if you go too far along it in either direction all the curve breaks because you pissed off a bunch of people.

Re: Internal emails reveal Ticketmaster helped scalpers jack up prices, FTC says

#116

Post by jimt1234 »

amanaplanacanal wrote: post #65

All they have to do is suck up to the president and it will all go away. I fully expect this to happen.

No way. We've got them now. Heads are gonna roll this time. ... Just kidding. Nothing's gonna happen.

Re: Internal emails reveal Ticketmaster helped scalpers jack up prices, FTC says

#117

Post by saaaaaam »

AlexandrB wrote: post #110
saaaaaam wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Michael Rapino, the CEO of Live Nation regularly boasted about how for sports events people take pride in paying thousands of dollars for tickets near the front, and how he wishes it was the same for music. Live Nation had been engaging in a venue refit programme to make a higher percentage of venue seating - 40% or so - ‘premium’ seating where they can charge far higher rates. As someone in this thread pointed out t…

> It’s a catch 22: if you are a sports team and only sell $1000 tickets you might sell out the show but you alienate your core base who buy lots of other stuff like shirts and caps and beer. That core base is also the taxpayers that fund your next stadium. If you get too greedy you'll be paying for it out of pocket.

Yep!

Re: Internal emails reveal Ticketmaster helped scalpers jack up prices, FTC says

#118

Post by leakycap »

jnsie wrote: post #79
leakycap wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What part of "now they'll slowly die" is discounted by the charts you linked showing they're currently alive? Internet Explorer had something like 99% of the web browser market in 1999. It... slowly died. May TicketMaster follow suit if they continue their greed.

Why the disingenuous response. What I linked was an article entitled "New Report Exposes Live Nation-Ticketmaster’s Monopoly Control of Top Arenas and Amphitheaters Worldwide". The fact that they monopolize venues strongly discounts your suggestion that they will "slowly die or be replaced quickly by something better like an AI ticketing system".

It is not inherently disingenuous when someone disagrees with you or doesn't see the point you're making.

You can link to how they're dominant in the market today all you want, it doesn't change the trajectory of their earned market reputation.

Locally, multiple small ticket companies are popping up to compete with TicketMaster. They've been here longer than a decade and don't even register on your charts. Everytime they sell a ticket, TicketMaster didn't. This will continue slowly over time unless something changes. As mentioned, this isn't a new problem, so why expect them to change? Thus, a replacement will rise... no matter how many charts you link to showing their current market demand.

People also said Internet Explorer would be the browser we all used forever. It's not a hard comparison to understand, nor is it disingenuous. If you have trouble understanding someone's reply, there are tools like Goblin Tools where you can copy and paste what is written and it will help explain how it is not a personal attack against you and your ideas.

Re: Internal emails reveal Ticketmaster helped scalpers jack up prices, FTC says

#119

Post by sellmesoap »

varenc wrote: post #111
rolandog wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I know! Greedflation is out of control. That used to be the cost of decently prized intercontinental plane tickets 6 years ago (not the cheapest!).

Greed is sort of the root of capitalism? Every entity working in their economic best interest. IMHO the problem here is Ticketmaster's monopoly status and the total lack of competition, which otherwise is the only thing applying downward pressure on prices in capitalism.

People seem to have the money to burn, if people stopped buying tickets that would reorient the market. I think a good transaction in capitalism involves the buyer and the seller coming away satisfied. Right now TM supports this secondary market, because it makes them more money, people still fill stadiums. North America's wealth is filled out by the middle man, it's another feather in the cap of conspicuous consumption.

Re: Internal emails reveal Ticketmaster helped scalpers jack up prices, FTC says

#120

Post by lokar »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #51
yard2010 wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Their whole business is based on bullying, dark patterns and ripoff, they either go out of business and become homeless or turn out to be the next president of the united states.

> Their whole business is based on bullying, dark patterns and ripoff No. It’s based on monopoly. There are a limited number of venues that can host a modern superstar, generally no more than one per geography, and Ticketmaster made it a point to represent all of them. Which means any modern superstar and their fans must work through Ticketmaster. Which, in turn, enables this nonsense. The cause is monopoly. Not “bul…

And even more clever: they leverage their control of the big acts and venues to force everyone else into line.

So even a mid sized venue can’t cross them because they can retaliate

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