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Slow social media

herman.bearblog.dev

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Re: Slow social media

#111

Post by ismyrnow »

bkettle wrote: post #12

I think modern social media is a huge problem but don’t see we can fix it without regulation. It’s clear that all the current incentives point companies towards engagement and rage bait and away from anything actually “social”, and I think it’s unlikely that any new social network that tries to fix these issues would achieve widespread usage. Have any countries proposed legislation to help reign it in? What would tha…

China already has such legislation. They have placed restrictions on social media and internet use for children, and they censor content on these platforms.

Personally, I'm against government intervention for this sort of thing. I prefer government to be constrained to securing my liberties, rather than restricting my behavior "for my own good".

As a parent, I talk to my kids about social media like I talk to them about junk food. I want them to recognize that it's bad for them - it's addictive, and provides short term pleasure that results in long term misery. Avoiding it, or making good decisions about how you interact with it, is a personal responsibility issue.

Re: Slow social media

#112

Post by mawise »

Um, I'm building this? [1]

The one key element I added was privacy. If your posts are private to your social group then there is no mechanism to try appealing to a broader "viral" audience. Also--if it is decentralized then the company (or person in my case) building it can't change their mind and start selling your data/eyeballs.

I have a LOT of thoughts in this space. Lots of people think they want some sort of healthier social-media alternative, but we're fighting against systems that are so finely tuned engagement monsters that is hard compete to protect your attention and time.

Herman- I'll reach out to you by email!

[1]: https://havenweb.org

Re: Slow social media

#113

Post by sunrunner »

BeetleB wrote: post #92

I was about to say "Disallow forwarding". The problem with most networks (and in the old days, even emails), was that the bulk of the material I'd get from people I personally know were not original content, but memes, humor, or political content being forwarded. But this may serve an equivalent purpose: > And finally, there should be a reasonable cap on the number of times a user can post per day. Roughly 5 times pe…

> Imagine you have a quota of only 1 HN comment per day. You probably will be a lot more careful on what you reply to.

1 HN comment a day is interesting as it would also introduce a lag into the speed of development of threads as you wouldn't know ahead of time what threads you would want to post in until they've all been created.

Something I think about personally is what would be the result of requiring people to invest a personally meaningful amount of time and/or money into posting. "I have to pay to speak?!" people ask. Well, yes.

Of course, this immediately seems to tie someone's ability to post to personal finances which isn't the intention. But the key idea is that it has to be something personally costly enough that it implies an honest and intentional signal, which always seems to end up as either time or money.

Some forums implement time-gated posting which is interesting. If you have to wait a minute to be allowed to post, can you still be bothered? But would I have paid to write this specific comment? I'm not sure, I guess that depends on the market rate for posts at the time. I have no doubt there are tens of ways this system breaks down that I haven't thought through.

Re: Slow social media

#114

Post by BeetleB »

sunrunner wrote: post #113
BeetleB wrote: post #92

I was about to say "Disallow forwarding". The problem with most networks (and in the old days, even emails), was that the bulk of the material I'd get from people I personally know were not original content, but memes, humor, or political content being forwarded. But this may serve an equivalent purpose: > And finally, there should be a reasonable cap on the number of times a user can post per day. Roughly 5 times pe…

> Imagine you have a quota of only 1 HN comment per day. You probably will be a lot more careful on what you reply to. 1 HN comment a day is interesting as it would also introduce a lag into the speed of development of threads as you wouldn't know ahead of time what threads you would want to post in until they've all been created. Something I think about personally is what would be the result of requiring people to i…

I think time based is the way to go, with an exponential curve, such that one can only post 5 comments reasonably per day.

The first comment in a given day has no wait. The second requires waiting 10 minutes. The 3rd requires an hour. The 4th requires 3 hours, and the 5th another 12 hours or so.

Obviously: No edits (or let the edit count as the comment).

Lots of variables to play with. The nice thing about time is that it is egalitarian. Richer people don't get more access.

> If you have to wait a minute to be allowed to post, can you still be bothered?

At work, I often log out of HN. The need to log back in often does act as a deterrent. I also occasionally use LeechBlock, with a 60s delay. That too acts as a deterrent.

Re: Slow social media

#115

Post by sunrunner »

BeetleB wrote: post #114
sunrunner wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Imagine you have a quota of only 1 HN comment per day. You probably will be a lot more careful on what you reply to. 1 HN comment a day is interesting as it would also introduce a lag into the speed of development of threads as you wouldn't know ahead of time what threads you would want to post in until they've all been created. Something I think about personally is what would be the result of requiring people to i…

I think time based is the way to go, with an exponential curve, such that one can only post 5 comments reasonably per day. The first comment in a given day has no wait. The second requires waiting 10 minutes. The 3rd requires an hour. The 4th requires 3 hours, and the 5th another 12 hours or so. Obviously: No edits (or let the edit count as the comment). Lots of variables to play with. The nice thing about time is th…

> I also occasionally use LeechBlock, with a 60s delay.

Interesting. I've tried blocking things via hosts file to add that kind of friction, but it's too easy and often I'm waiting on something that takes longer than the time it takes me to 'fix' the hosts file.

> At work, I often log out of HN.

This works for me for posting but doesn't help so much with the FOMO of new threads. If I had to be logged in to view I imagine I'd read far fewer threads.

Re: Slow social media

#117

Post by winter_blue »

forgetcolor wrote: post #116

Minus is a finite social platform where users get 100 posts--for life. https://minus.social

That's an interesting concept. We could take that concept in general, and a person could write 100 essays (that they publish on whatever platform), and these 100 essays could comprise their magnum opus.

Re: Slow social media

#118

Post by mrweasel »

hboon wrote: post #8

What are people using now instead of Facebook (for broastcast and interaction with friends/family)? Chat groups in WhatsApp, Signal, Telegram etc fulfills part of it but that's only a subset since people in one chat groups know each other to a certain degree.

Nothing mostly. Closest family have a group chat, and I have a few friends hanging out on IRC. For broadcasting, nothing, and I probably never will again.

One thing many forget when presenting new ideas for social media platforms is that we've been burnt by Facebook, Instagram, Twitter, Reddit, Imgur and even LinkedIn to some extend. I'll never trust a social media platform again because of people like Mark Zuckerberg. There's nothing you can say or do that will convince that your new platform won't turn to shit just as fast as Facebook did.

The business model doesn't work out, because not enough people will pay and you cannot run these platforms on ad revenue and be trustworthy.

Re: Slow social media

#119

Post by IAmBroom »

intended wrote: post #25

Well intentioned, but never going to work. Social networks will always create financial incentives that have to be contended with. No network that can connect to “close” people, will always result in some nodes on the graph that connect to a “large portion of people”. Always. This broadcast ability is then a path to financial renumeration, which will see the rise of copy cats and another arms race to gather attention…

Agreed. Our local instance of NextDoor, which is explicitly aimed at forming online social forums for geographically close users, forbids self-promotion of businesses in the general chats.

The admins regularly ignore this, because the users like seeing posts from "I'm a carpenter looking for work right now!".

So, even with a supposedly sequestered monetization area, it bleeds into everything.

Re: Slow social media

#120

Post by IAmBroom »

baubino wrote: post #68
pflenker wrote: post #40

I don’t want to be limited to „meaningful connections!“ I stay in close contact with those who are dear to me outside of social media. I want to stay connected to some random coworker I enjoyed working with in 2011, because I enjoy watching them from a distance, getting married, settling down, that kind of stuff, and occasionally comment on these things. This used to be a strength of social media before algorithms ca…

This desire to follow people’s lives from a distance without necessarily interacting with them in the world is the root of the very unhealthy parasocial tendencies driving social media. It seems quite innocent and benign on the scale of one person just wanting to keep up with the life of a cool coworker from the past, but it quickly adds up to a bunch of people passively following other people with very little actual…

Counterpoint: This ability to "follow people's lives from a distance without necessarily interacting with them in the world" is the only way I have of renewing old friendships with childhood friends, schoolmates and friends from college.

It is a HUGE social benefit to me, as I've moved far away. I don't need Abe's phone number, Betty's email, and I don't expect even Christmas cards updating me on Charlie's family. But if any of them post on FB that their parent or child or dog just died, graduated, or got married (in a progressive animal-rights nation), I can make an effort to let them know I care.

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