The IJsselmeer and Markermeer (of what used to be the Zuiderzee) in the Netherlands isn't much deeper but together I think quite a bit bigger than Okeechobee
Should we drain the Everglades?
111–120 of 126 posts
Re: Should we drain the Everglades?
#112Earlier quoted context omitted.
Even putting aside that it destroys incredible natural beauty for land that's not even productively useful, it astounds me that people still buy into major terraforming projects. Every single time it's had absolutely horrendous consequences often with millions of human deaths attached. Don't make large changes to chaotic systems!
>Even putting aside that it destroys incredible natural beauty for land that's not even productively useful, it astounds me that people still buy into major terraforming projects. Every single time it's had absolutely horrendous consequences often with millions of human deaths attached. Don't make large changes to chaotic systems! Ah, yes, terrible consequences, such as, the irrigation and suitability for farmland of…
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Re: Should we drain the Everglades?
#113Earlier quoted context omitted.
> the irrigation and suitability for farmland of central California The unsustainable irrigation that's draining aquifers during droughts and causing permanent damage[1] to groundwater retention? The irrigation that's causing changes in land topography[2]? > the lack of frequent flooding of the Mississippi river You mean the system which is a well known ecological disaster?[3][4][5] And no frequent flooding? Since 20…
This is exactly the sort of ignorant of the past viewpoint I was complaining about. The part of CA we're talking about was a desert shithole before (arguably still is). There's debate about just how much we can sustainably irrigate it, but at least we can irrigate it. The alternative is basically no agricultural activity. Maybe some grazing. Ditto for the Mississippi. It floods "a little" now vs "somewhere on it is g…
You talking about the Imperial Valley or the Central Valley? The former is naturally desert, the latter was naturally abundant in wetlands and flood-prone grasslands, before agriculture took over.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salton_Trough
It sounds like you're talking about the Imperial Valley, which is a different ball of wax from the whole wetland-draining argument here.
I object to "desert shithole" --- the Sonoran Desert is an ecosystem worthy of value in its own right, we just don't benefit from it as humans unless we turn to resource extraction or agriculture.
Re: Should we drain the Everglades?
#114Earlier quoted context omitted.
>Even putting aside that it destroys incredible natural beauty for land that's not even productively useful, it astounds me that people still buy into major terraforming projects. Every single time it's had absolutely horrendous consequences often with millions of human deaths attached. Don't make large changes to chaotic systems! Ah, yes, terrible consequences, such as, the irrigation and suitability for farmland of…
It does not take much familiarity with the history of Mississippi flood control and the Army Corps of Engineers to realize how risky, fraught, and short-sighted the whole project has been. The delta's dying and the Old River Control Structure is one bad day away from diverting the entire river to the Atchafalaya. _The Great River_ by Boyce Upholt from last year is a good place to start learning about the Mississippi.
Or John McPhee's "Atchafalaya".
Re: Should we drain the Everglades?
#115Earlier quoted context omitted.
This is exactly the sort of ignorant of the past viewpoint I was complaining about. The part of CA we're talking about was a desert shithole before (arguably still is). There's debate about just how much we can sustainably irrigate it, but at least we can irrigate it. The alternative is basically no agricultural activity. Maybe some grazing. Ditto for the Mississippi. It floods "a little" now vs "somewhere on it is g…
You talking about the Imperial Valley or the Central Valley? The former is naturally desert, the latter was naturally abundant in wetlands and flood-prone grasslands, before agriculture took over. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salton_Trough It sounds like you're talking about the Imperial Valley, which is a different ball of wax from the whole wetland-draining argument here. I object to "desert shithole" --- the Sono…
You're right I misspoke. I'm talking about the Imperial valley.
Re: Should we drain the Everglades?
#116Earlier quoted context omitted.
Alligators are the exact opposite of aggressive. If you walk up and pat one on the head it'll probably just hiss and start slinking away at the speed of syrup. You should be more afraid of the spiders and blood-sucking insects.
I do not think that a 12' gator is going to appreciate you patting it on the head. And for short distances, they can outrun a human. That said I am a 3rd generation S. Floridian who grew up 50 years ago swimming and water skiing in the canals along what was then two-lane Highway 84, out west of Plantation, nothing much else there. Never had a problem, but the big ones got shot, officially or not. Fun story: I was sla…
Thanks for sharing your stories, I enjoyed them.
Re: Should we drain the Everglades?
#117Earlier quoted context omitted.
“a few meters above sea level” is still not sea level. That’s a good 12-15 feet to work with.
Iirc, there are scientific estimates that Greenland's ice sheet alone would raise sea levels by 24 ft if it melted. 12-15 ft may really not be enough for very long.
So let me ask you, is a house really a product meant to last forever and ever, or should it be something that you get maybe 30-40 good years out of it and then dispose it and rebuild?
I don’t get this idea where if a building can’t stay in a spot forever, it should not be built at all. Why not build and enjoy while you can?
When the land floods it floods, you move on. Until then don’t worry about it.
Re: Should we drain the Everglades?
#118Earlier quoted context omitted.
Leeches freak me out, I can't imagine swimming with (or falling on) the gators!
Why? That's like being afraid of mosquitoes. You can't even really feel a leech.
Not being able to feel them is honestly scarier. It's one thing to suddenly feel a single bloodsucking parasite attach itself to you, but suddenly realizing that you're covered in them out of nowhere is the stuff of nightmares. If I could be outside in the summer blissfully minding my business and then glancing down save suddenly seeing like a dozen mosquitoes all gorging themselves on my arm, I'd be more afraid of them too.
Re: Should we drain the Everglades?
#119Everglades as a biological system is perhaps one of the most unique things in the world.
I don’t think there is one like this.
It was eye opening to visit, have never been this close to Aligators.
It should be preserved in totality, for as long as we can, it is an American treasure. Unsustainable building in Florida is not a good enough reason to drain the Everglades.
Re: Should we drain the Everglades?
#120Earlier quoted context omitted.
Atheism isn't a religion and as an atheist I find that an offensive statement. Nature existed before we did and will exist after us, it can't be true that it exists for us.
> it can't be true that it exists for us You're saying it as if you assume some external entity judging whether something exists for somebody or not. As an atheist you would acknowledge that the entire concept of "existing for something/somebody" is entirely a construct of human mind, which human mentally applies to the observable universe around them. So for an atheistic human mind, everything exists for human, as t…
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