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TikTok has turned culture into a feedback loop of impulse and machine learning

thenexus.media

111–120 of 222 posts

Re: TikTok has turned culture into a feedback loop of impulse and machine learning

#111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Came here to say exactly this. People also listen to individual podcast episodes that clock in at 2 or 3 hours, and are hugely popular. Movies are getting longer at the cinema too -- what used to be 85 minutes is now 150 minutes. TikTok has not "won" at all. There's a place for content of all different lengths. The death of the attention span has been greatly exaggerated.

These are definitely not the same. How many people are actually paying full attention to a 3 hour podcast? The majority will be listening to it while on their commute, or at the gym, or doing chores around the house. My wife (a civil engineer) has a podcast going in the background even while working . I asked her how she actually manages to pay attention to it and she says that it's mostly for the background noise. >…

> where people can consume in the same way they consume their podcasts

It even has a name - "second-monitoring".

Re: TikTok has turned culture into a feedback loop of impulse and machine learning

#112
post #59

> TikTok won. Now everything is 60 seconds. It's true and it's devastating. I intentionally never signed up for TikTok because of the dangers of hyper-addictive short form content. Ultra-processed, junk food content. But my Instagram became TikTok - so now I don't use Instagram. My YouTube is becoming TikTok - so now I don't use YouTube. Everything is implementing autoplaying short form content. X/Twitter. Reddit. et…

> But my Instagram became TikTok - so now I don't use Instagram. My YouTube is becoming TikTok - so now I don't use YouTube. Everything is implementing autoplaying short form content. X/Twitter. Reddit. etc. There are notably numerous Chrome/Firefox extensions that will hide Shorts from the YouTube homescreen. Plenty of creators are still focusing on normal-length content

Yes, and I use those on my desktop. Doesn't help with the mobile apps though.

I guess the solution is just no YouTube on the phone.

The one that upsets me the most is Instagrams shift from photos to video. I miss seeing cool photos from my friends.

Re: TikTok has turned culture into a feedback loop of impulse and machine learning

#113

Too simple of a narrative. At the same time, YouTube videos are getting longer, and people are watching more YouTube videos on TVs than on mobile devices: https://www.forbes.com/sites/bradadgate/2025/02/12/launched-... So I think we're seeing more of a bifurcation: in-depth longform videos are becoming 30, 40, 60, even 90 minutes long, whereas anything shorter than 10 minutes is being compressed to 30-60 seconds. The…

You haven't actually contradicted anything in the article. People can have low attention spans and watch a 30 minute MrBeast video of people shouting. People can have YouTube running on their TV while still being on their phone.

Your narrative isn't any less "simple" or any better backed up.

Re: TikTok has turned culture into a feedback loop of impulse and machine learning

#114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If your Youtube video is 8 minutes or longer (and your channel is monetized), you're able to place midroll ads every minute or so to maximize ad revenue. Typically Youtube only serves a very small fraction of these midroll ads to each user; usually every 10 - 15 minutes. So 16min+ has been the sweet spot. It's this ad incentive that has made long-form videos more popular on Youtube.

every 10 - 15 minutes? Thats cute

Yea, I've seen some YouTube videos that display ~30 seconds worth of ads every 3.5 minutes of a hour long video. It's gotten quite ridiculous.

Re: TikTok has turned culture into a feedback loop of impulse and machine learning

#115
post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I won't even look at a youtube video essay about an obscure vintage RPG (my preferred form of guilty pleasure viewing) if it's under 20 minutes long.

In my case, YouTube has figured out that I love Pokemon videos where the streamer does really silly things with old Pokemon games (like resetting the emulator 9001 times to find a shiny in order to have a full on Shiny only pokedex, including the starter pokemon. In my case I don't care how long the videos are though.

Lol that sounds interesting, can you share the video?

Re: TikTok has turned culture into a feedback loop of impulse and machine learning

#116
To be fair, you can just ignore TicToc.

Okay... maybe you can't. Maybe there are people in your life that won't let you forget it exists. Maybe your job is in communications and you have to get on TicToc (or YouTube or InstaGram or whatever.)

170 million people is about half the U.S. population. And I can't say this without sounding like an elitist pr*k, but it's always seemed like about half the population is below average. (And since we're all savvy consumers of statistics here, we all know that attempt at a joke would be better if I said "half the population is below the median.")

So assuming an algorithmic dopamine-stroking video platform is a social evil, maybe people are susceptible to it because there's something missing in their lives? I don't watch a lot of TV and look at the internet mostly through a text based browser. Mostly because I KNOW I have attention problems. I don't need flashy ads bombarding me with distractions. But mostly it's because I do a lot of other things that aren't watching videos that are more fulfilling (like commenting on HN threads.)

I don't know if this is true... but I like to play the game where you think about how the world would have to change for various statements to become true. (It's fun to wallow in the swampy mud-bath of your own imagination.) What if... TicToc (and YouTube and Facebook and Twitter and all the other attention sucking apps) are a net benefit to people's lives?

I know it's en vogue to bash new media dealers and clutch our collective pearls. But if traditional media could get these engagement numbers, I can't imagine they wouldn't. Walter Cronkite and Edward R. Murrow have been dead for decades. If, as a culture, we valued the Children's Television Workshop, we would have funded them publicly instead of letting them crawl into (financial) bed with NBC/Universal and Warner Brothers.

So sure... maybe TicToc is evil, but what alternative are we offering the half of society that wants their midbrain stroked?

Re: TikTok has turned culture into a feedback loop of impulse and machine learning

#117
I got addicted to YT shorts for a little while, but I've mostly stopped doomscrolling now as, counter-intuitively, it wasn't addictive enough to keep me engaged. Sure, the first few dozen hours the carefully designed feedback loop keeps you engaged, and then... it wore off, at least for me. The algorithm seemed more interested in pushing what was popular than what I was interested in. I tried gaming it by quickly scrolling past things I didn't care about or had already seen a million times (like those retention farming 3-second loops of reddit/twitter screenshots), and hanging around on stuff I liked, but it didn't seem to budge the needle.

I guess it's a lot like real drugs - you build a tolerance and you need a bigger dose to get the same effect. In this case, no bigger dose is available.

Re: TikTok has turned culture into a feedback loop of impulse and machine learning

#118

To be fair, you can just ignore TicToc. Okay... maybe you can't. Maybe there are people in your life that won't let you forget it exists. Maybe your job is in communications and you have to get on TicToc (or YouTube or InstaGram or whatever.) 170 million people is about half the U.S. population. And I can't say this without sounding like an elitist pr*k, but it's always seemed like about half the population is below…

> I know it's en vogue to bash new media dealers and clutch our collective pearls. But if traditional media could get these engagement numbers, I can't imagine they wouldn't.

At least legacy media wasn’t directly promoting and rewarding antisocial behavior and crimes.

Re: TikTok has turned culture into a feedback loop of impulse and machine learning

#119
post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In my case, YouTube has figured out that I love Pokemon videos where the streamer does really silly things with old Pokemon games (like resetting the emulator 9001 times to find a shiny in order to have a full on Shiny only pokedex, including the starter pokemon. In my case I don't care how long the videos are though.

Lol that sounds interesting, can you share the video?

Sure thing! I enjoy random Pokemon videos, watching the story of how the game was birthed by hobbyists is also fascinating.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dcUUbGb77tY

Re: TikTok has turned culture into a feedback loop of impulse and machine learning

#120
post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The article offers several options depending on the question's perspective. The commercial answer would be publishers of longer-form content, but the more sociologically important one would be that it is harming the ability of the average person to engage with long-form information, making the phenomenon costly to the whole world.

The idea that long form = good is absurd and this type of thinking shows how over-confident this author is in their own intelligence. Information compression and storage is the baseline of our species evolution.

Ahh, it seems I made my comment too short.

I don't think that long-form content is always superior to short, but I do think overconsumption of short-form content reduces peoples' ability to handle irreducible complexity.

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