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Navy SEALs reportedly killed North Korean fishermen to hide a failed mission

nytimes.com

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Re: Navy SEALs reportedly killed North Korean fishermen to hide a failed mission

#111

Post by jhanschoo »

giardini wrote: post #98

What evidence exists that the supposed mission occurred?

> The 2019 operation has never been publicly acknowledged, or even hinted at, by the United States or North Korea. The details remain classified and are being reported here for the first time. The Trump administration did not notify key members of Congress who oversee intelligence operations, before or after the mission. The lack of notification may have violated the law.

> The White House declined to comment.

> This account is based on interviews with two dozen people, including civilian government officials, members of the first Trump administration and current and former military personnel with knowledge of the mission. All of them spoke on the condition of anonymity because of the mission’s classified status.

The NYT story has this to say regarding provenance.

Re: Navy SEALs reportedly killed North Korean fishermen to hide a failed mission

#112

Post by nappy »

Eextra953 wrote: post #88

This botched operation shows how representative government has been subverted in America. Power should flow bottom-up, rather than top-down. Would putting this operation to a democratic vote ever result in approval? Highly doubtful. This suggests our current form of democracy is deeply broken and urgently needs fixing. IMO the issue is how we think about power itself. The assumption underneath it all is that once we…

you make it very clear that you have zero understanding of what republican democracy is in the United States.

Re: Navy SEALs reportedly killed North Korean fishermen to hide a failed mission

#113

Post by aussieguy1234 »

The Japanese bombed civilian boats that happened to be out on the water near pearl harbour before their surprise attack.

Their reasoning was that these boats could have alerted the Americans about the impending attack.

It's interesting to see the US more or less committing the same crime, even if it was just a bug planting mission.

Re: Navy SEALs reportedly killed North Korean fishermen to hide a failed mission

#115

Post by kev009 »

jandrese wrote: post #34
jjtheblunt wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How are you relating NSA with the Navy?

The Navy isn't in the wiretap business.

ST6 is under the command of SOCOM, they do have the directorate to do clandestine work. To the degree that this article reflects any reality, it's also plausible that a partner in SOCOM (TFO/ISA) or an agency would be along for the ride to do anything specialized.

Re: Navy SEALs reportedly killed North Korean fishermen to hide a failed mission

#116

Post by throwawaymaths »

jhanschoo wrote: post #114

When incidents like this happen, it gives credence to North Korean propaganda portraying the US as an imperialist aggressor.

yeah, it's not like north korea doesn't do batshit crazy stuff like kidnap japanese/south korean civilians from japanese/south korean soil, or murder people abroad with massage artists given vx laden massage oil

Re: Navy SEALs reportedly killed North Korean fishermen to hide a failed mission

#117

Post by Esophagus4 »

southernplaces7 wrote: post #20

"A North Korean boat appeared out of the dark. Flashlights from the bow swept over the water. Fearing that they had been spotted, the SEALs opened fire. Within seconds, everyone on the North Korean boat was dead." Seeing as how this was right where this entire mission turned into a lethal clusterfuck, you'd think rigorously trained, carefully coordinated and disciplined SEALs would just try the incredibly sophisticat…

(Assuming you also weren’t in the armed forces, so correct me if I’m wrong.)

I don’t think it’s worthwhile for laypeople to armchair quarterback the decisions of possibly the most elite soldiers in the US armed forces.

By the time the mission was given to them, the collateral risk had already been accepted by JSOC, national security advisors, and likely Trump. I could feel more comfortable questioning their judgment, I think, but I would need some more context still.

Re: Navy SEALs reportedly killed North Korean fishermen to hide a failed mission

#118

Post by 317070 »

It's funny how people are so surprised? This story was already fictionalized in 2004's "Team America - World Police". SEALs, North Korea, it's all there.

Special Forces are secretive, and almost as a law of nature that leads to them being inept.

There is a long list of these special operations in the book "Rogue States: The Rule of Force in World Affairs" by Noam Chomsky.

Re: Navy SEALs reportedly killed North Korean fishermen to hide a failed mission

#119

Post by kyletns »

jhanschoo wrote: post #114

When incidents like this happen, it gives credence to North Korean propaganda portraying the US as an imperialist aggressor.

The US is pretty clearly an imperialist aggressor? Latin America is littered with the bodies of those who didn't conform to US economic dictates.

Re: Navy SEALs reportedly killed North Korean fishermen to hide a failed mission

#120

Post by infoseek12 »

doe88 wrote: post #51

I'm always surprised like at this level it still seems some people absolutely want to fire there weapons; whereas I would say the more secret a mission is, the more experience you have, the more training you have and you should have understood that killing people and making noises was not the goal of the mission... It should be more teached it seems, sometimes there is operational value in not killing people.

What surprises me is that they had the mini subs door open and bright lights on inside. This seems like surprisingly poor light discipline.
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