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All New Java Language Features Since Java 21

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Re: All New Java Language Features Since Java 21

#111

Post by akkad33 »

integralid wrote: post #93
spacebanana7 wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Impressively simple - though there being three ways of doing something is a complexity in itself. Perhaps I’m being too critical.

Not if only one is the right one in all cases. In python you can also do s = set() s.add(1) s.add(2) and s = set(x for x in [1, 2]) But I wouldn't call that having three ways to do the same. Disclaimer: I don't know java well, just commenting based on the comments above and my python knowledge.

In python, those give a mutable set, which is what I was referring to above. Also not to put too a fine a point, you'll never see python code like that in the wild, but even in code reviews these days, it's common to find Java code written like in my example because the syntax for sets in Java came after Java 8

Re: All New Java Language Features Since Java 21

#112

Post by bullen »

p2detar wrote: post #107
bullen wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think VT's are only going to be interesting if you need 1000s of them doing tiny amount of small work often. For me I have been waiting for them for 20 years, as the blocking IO made MMO development impossible. In the meantime we got NIO in 1.4 that only became performant and stable around 1.7 so it's been a slow progress. I dug out my old blocking server code from back then and with a fresh coat of paint I'm ready…

> For me I have been waiting for them for 20 years, as the blocking IO made MMO development impossible. I'm not into this area of work, but wouldn’t Netty have been helpful even before VTs became available?

Netty has NIO... but back in 2000 there was no Netty. So 25 years back. JDK 1.4 with NIO came in 2002, Netty in 2004, but NIO only became usable live ~2010 with epoll and bugs got sorted end of 1.6!

Also Netty is one of those middleware "pretend to help but really bloat" libs.

I would sincerely recommend to avoid those as implementing on top of lower common denominators always is faster in the end after all the Netty bugs have been sorted.

Re: All New Java Language Features Since Java 21

#113

Post by vips7L »

jayd16 wrote: post #74
brap wrote: post #30

After trying out many languages at many places, I reached the conclusion that Java, as weird as it may be, is my favorite language. There were times I hated it, but turns out I really just hated messy, over-engineered legacy code and working in a gray cubicle at aging MegaCorps. The language itself is quite beautiful when used properly and with modern features. It just really needs a makeover and better tools.

I can't see why you'd pick Java over C#. IMO its basically all the same preferences with slightly more consistent syntax choices. That said, Java is great too. It's underrated considering what a workhorse it is.

C# is far more complex than Java. It’s a kitchen sink language.

Re: All New Java Language Features Since Java 21

#114

Post by vips7L »

tombert wrote: post #48
santiagobasulto wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is amazing news! Two questions for you: - how’s the environment? Build tools, dependency management, etc. it used to be a PitA back then. - how has the typing system and generics evolved to support this? Have they introduced any type of variance?

Generics still kind of suck but they’re workable enough. As far as I am aware they’re broadly unchanged and I don’t think they added any kind of new variance. It turns out, though, it’s still good enough for sealed interfaces and the like; I don’t have too many issues with it, though that might just be Stockholm syndrome at this point. Maven is terrible as always but Gradle is generally fine. I use IntelliJ community…

Maven is generally fine. The only complaint anyone has is “xml bad”. Outside of that maven is probably (?) better than gradle. At least it prevents a custom scripting mess.

Re: All New Java Language Features Since Java 21

#116

Post by vips7L »

k0tan32 wrote: post #64
mberning wrote: post #40

I’ve worked in Java for over 20 years. Being the “lingua franca” of the enterprise is its biggest strength IMO, but it is also perplexing to me that it was able to do that in the first place. The language itself is not bad. The tooling around it is very good. But the codebases you encounter written in it, particularly in the enterprise, are often horrible.

Mind sharing why do you consider Java tooling to be good (and largely, what is good here)? The reason I ask is that I recently had to join a Java project at my company, and having a background in Node/Rust/Perl/Lua and some C++, I found the Java tooling to be extremely unsuitable for my taste. A simple example: there is no standard LSP server, and the amount of jumps required to have a working setup with FOSS tools a…

The eclipse language server works perfectly fine in vim/emacs/vscode/editor-of-choice.

Re: All New Java Language Features Since Java 21

#117

Post by eweise »

vips7L wrote: post #115
eweise wrote: post #68

Java is becoming a poorly implemented Scala.

Scala is a dead and complex language.

Scala definitely had some missteps but its much nicer to program in than Java and simpler as well. I mainly program in Go these days but I could imagine explaining the benefits of Scala over Go to my coworkers. It would be embarrassing trying to do the same with Java however.

Re: All New Java Language Features Since Java 21

#118

Post by pico303 »

jfengel wrote: post #43
pico303 wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, you shouldn't write that. Your variable should represent the complete implementation. Where you use it should be as generic as possible, for example, the parameter in a function call.

Why would you want that? The whole point of an interface or superclass is to let you swap implementations without changing everything. I also like the nudge it gives you to use only the higher level methods, rather than the ones specific to the subclass unless they're needed. That also improves flexibility.

It’s not about swapping implementations, like the original poster suggested, so that you can later come in and swap out different implementations in a local sense. Interfaces are used to decouple parts of an application; for example mocking test interfaces. Another way to look at it is that interfaces are a contract that needs to be fulfilled.

Declaring a local variable as an interface to hide functionality so you can swap out functionality later is misunderstanding the fundamental theories around interfaces. Your variable should be whatever the function or method returns. If you want to abstract the type so it can be swapped out, create a function that returns an abstract type. Don’t tell the HashMap constructor it did the wrong thing. Now that I think about it, I’d recommend you use “var” in all cases, and not try to redefine the return values from a function.

Re: All New Java Language Features Since Java 21

#119

Post by vips7L »

eweise wrote: post #117
vips7L wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Scala is a dead and complex language.

Scala definitely had some missteps but its much nicer to program in than Java and simpler as well. I mainly program in Go these days but I could imagine explaining the benefits of Scala over Go to my coworkers. It would be embarrassing trying to do the same with Java however.

I don’t think anyone I know would classify Scala as simpler.

In my opinion Java is a much better language than Go. I can’t imagine anyone liking Scala would prefer it over Java.

Re: All New Java Language Features Since Java 21

#120

Post by tpxl »

akkad33 wrote: post #111
integralid wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not if only one is the right one in all cases. In python you can also do s = set() s.add(1) s.add(2) and s = set(x for x in [1, 2]) But I wouldn't call that having three ways to do the same. Disclaimer: I don't know java well, just commenting based on the comments above and my python knowledge.

In python, those give a mutable set, which is what I was referring to above. Also not to put too a fine a point, you'll never see python code like that in the wild, but even in code reviews these days, it's common to find Java code written like in my example because the syntax for sets in Java came after Java 8

My bad on the mutability. As far as code like that written in Java, I don't think I've ever seen something like that in anything non-toy and I started with Java 7.
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