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Are we decentralized yet?

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111–120 of 292 posts

Re: Are we decentralized yet?

#111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is how it was calculated in a published trade magazine (either Infoworld or MacWeek, I think) I'm not sure if the the analysis was done by a market research firm or the magazine.

Presumably by a journalist who doesn’t understand what market share is

Everybody else is telling you you're wrong and you're doubling down and insisting that respectable journals are morons who don't understand anything.

You should stop, reflect on this fact for a moment, then go pick up a goddamn book

Re: Are we decentralized yet?

#112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This seems misleading. Different AppViews would obviously be branded differently, but the whole point of ATProto is that there is a shared "picture" of the world. People are running alternative AppViews that consume Bluesky posts (and serve Bluesky threads). Here's the same thread on three different AppViews: - https://zeppelin.social/profile/did:plc:iyz5zf463ic52vqbonyu... - https://blacksky.community/profile/did:pl…

So, it's the same underlying data structures (e.g. posts, threads, etc.), and the way they're exposed depends on the implementation? So there's one BlueSky, but BlueSky is just one interface (UI + API). Am I getting this right? I just want to know if I can run my own node in my own hardware.

You can think of ATProto like this.

Each user has a "website" with JSON of their own content (e.g. all my posts, all my likes, all my follows, actually live in a sqlite database hosted somewhere). It's not really a website but more like a git repo — one per user.

And then, there's a protocol for how to aggregate information from all such "websites" in the network into a stream of changes. Apps subscribe to that stream of changes and update their local databases (which act as app-specific caches) in response to those events.

When I make a Bluesky post, I'm really writing JSON into my sqlite file. This change gets broadcasted to all interested apps which update their own databases (which may or may not care about specific content type like "Bluesky post"). Obviously forks of Bluesky backend do index Bluesky posts (and then return them in the same UI), but you could imagine other backends that only care about other content types, or that record Bluesky posts but in a different database structure, and ofc can present a different UI for it.

Yes, you can run your own node — multiple types of nodes. You run your own PDS (https://github.com/bluesky-social/pds) to store own data (that's the "website" in my analogy), or you could run a Relay (https://whtwnd.com/bnewbold.net/3lo7a2a4qxg2l) that collects all PDS changes into a stream, or you could run an AppView (any backend that listens to Relay or PDS, basically your own app).

Re: Are we decentralized yet?

#113
post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are lots of ways they could make a sustainable income without disrupting Bluesky's current status quo and be comfortably rich for the rest of their lives... but that's completely out of character for them and will never happen. I do think the geeks currently running Bluesky are sincere in keeping it decentralized, but the money people will someday probably force them out and squeeze the user base for a quick bu…

Is it a quick buck? How long has bluesky been funded for with no return?

Quick meaning it's short term from when it starts. The time before it starts doesn't factor in.

Re: Are we decentralized yet?

#114
post #2

Neat! I'm not surprised at the findings here. BlueSky (for the average user) is pretty much a drop in replacement for Twitter. Despite the smaller total numbers in Mastadon, it's great to see that the ecosystem seems to be successfully avoiding centralization like we've seen in the AT-Proto ecosystem. I suspect that the cost of running AT proto servers/relays is prohibitive for smaller players compared to a Mastadon…

> BlueSky (for the average user) is pretty much a drop in replacement for Twitter.

One reason Bluesky is so successful is because it doesn't shove decentralisation into the user's face like Mastodon does. The vast majority of people don't know what decentralisation is and don't care to.

I think that far too much effort is put into decentralisation and not enough into good moderation on these platforms.

Re: Are we decentralized yet?

#115
post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

HHI is a super useful metric -- glad you like it! The squared sum of normalized shares proves to be very useful in a lot of contexts -- not just market share. Voting is one great example.

Sounds depressing (i.e. ~5000 in a typical US election)

It gets really interesting when you look at the precinct and county level in the US, and similar types of views in European countries where they do real representative government.

Re: Are we decentralized yet?

#116
post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can, it just won't be the Bluesky App View, so it's not really Bluesky. It's not like the fediverse where the instances own the URLs of the posts: they go through app views and there's a canonical URL to a Bluesky post and that's through the official app view.

This seems misleading. Different AppViews would obviously be branded differently, but the whole point of ATProto is that there is a shared "picture" of the world. People are running alternative AppViews that consume Bluesky posts (and serve Bluesky threads). Here's the same thread on three different AppViews: - https://zeppelin.social/profile/did:plc:iyz5zf463ic52vqbonyu... - https://blacksky.community/profile/did:pl…

one important correction is that blacksky is not hosting their own appview, they host their own PDS for users to join and a soft-fork of the official client

Re: Are we decentralized yet?

#117

So we are not decentralized. Git was a good attempt, but it kind of got centralized around GitHub, GitLab, and other variants. BitTorrent was decentralized, except tracker sites were the natural centralization points. Bitcoin was also decentralized, but still had Coinbase and other sites. Even SMTP is de facto centralized due to the spam problem.

Anyone can construct a service like Coinbase, and in fact there are numerous such sites available; at this point, you can even use PayPal! You don't even have to continue using the same one you started with: you can buy Bitcoin with PayPal and then sell it with Coinbase. It seems like a very strange definition of centralized to say that this causes any kind of centralization on Bitcoin...

Re: Are we decentralized yet?

#118
post #19
post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

ATProto also has the downside of being supported by a corporation and investors with various backgrounds that will eventually want to earn something out of it all and there is no telling how this will happen.

There are lots of ways they could make a sustainable income without disrupting Bluesky's current status quo and be comfortably rich for the rest of their lives... but that's completely out of character for them and will never happen. I do think the geeks currently running Bluesky are sincere in keeping it decentralized, but the money people will someday probably force them out and squeeze the user base for a quick bu…

>There are lots of ways they could make a sustainable income without disrupting Bluesky's current status quo and be comfortably rich for the rest of their lives... but that's completely out of character for them and will never happen.

Sounds like reddit 15 years ago

Re: Are we decentralized yet?

#119
post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There are lots of ways they could make a sustainable income without disrupting Bluesky's current status quo Like what?

Off the top of my head: Paid hosting/services on top of the protocol, reddit-gold style tipping and gamification, being a transactional middleman (there are a lot of artists selling things, famous people promoting things, and so on), promoted posts and ads (easily blockable, but some users wouldn't bother). Bluesky is a small team of like ~30 people, if they keep running lean they have at least a chance of a decent p…

I think you are wildly overestimating the user's willingness to pay online, and underestimating the costs to run a large scale site. Even if you remove developer's salaries and server costs, the fines could be worth 10s of millions of dollar per country just for delay in removal of hate speech[1].

[1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Network_Enforcement_Act

Re: Are we decentralized yet?

#120
post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is a detailed explanation available at the link I posted. Second header, "Approach".

What do you expect the performance characteristics to be compared to querying a database?

I expect them to be unimportant. This has been merged upstream and running on the flagship Mastodon instance for a little while now.

There is also a section related to performance available at the link I posted. Third header, "Likely Concerns", second subheader, "DoS/Amplification".

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