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LLMs tell bad jokes because they avoid surprises

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Re: LLMs tell bad jokes because they avoid surprises

#111

Post by Cpoll »

canjobear wrote: post #99
IshKebab wrote: post #11

This sounds really convincing but I'm not sure it's actually correct. The author is conflating the surprise of punchlines with their likelihood. To put it another way, ask a professional comedian to complete a joke with a punchline. It's very likely that they'll give you a funny surprising answer. I think the real explanation is that good jokes are actually extremely difficult. I have young children (4 and 6). Even 6…

> Even 6 year olds don't understand humour at all. Very similar to LLMs they know the shape of a joke from hearing them before, but they aren't funny in the same way LLM jokes aren't funny. For further examples see a great deal of documentation here: https://www.tumblr.com/badkidsjokes

But some of these are pretty creative, perhaps in an anti-humor sort of way. Seems more of a subversion of joke structures than a lack of understanding.

> A man goes to a doctor's office and says "Doctor, I'm a chicken." And the doctor says "No you're not."

> There are two guys, riding a bike. One is washing his hair. And the other one is not.

> What do you get when you cross a t-rex and a chicken? Nothing but death.

Re: LLMs tell bad jokes because they avoid surprises

#112

Post by [deleted] »

jpalomaki wrote: post #31

So I just tried with ChatGPT, with the prompt at bottom, borrowing the description of good joke from the article. I think there's some interesting stuff, even with this minimal prompting. The example below was from down the line, ChatGPT kept on offering jokes with different style. Man: “Why do you always bury bones in the garden?”, Dog: “Because the bank keeps asking for ID.” Man: “Don’t beg at the table.”, Dog: “Do…

[deleted]

Re: LLMs tell bad jokes because they avoid surprises

#113

Post by hyghjiyhu »

jpalomaki wrote: post #31

So I just tried with ChatGPT, with the prompt at bottom, borrowing the description of good joke from the article. I think there's some interesting stuff, even with this minimal prompting. The example below was from down the line, ChatGPT kept on offering jokes with different style. Man: “Why do you always bury bones in the garden?”, Dog: “Because the bank keeps asking for ID.” Man: “Don’t beg at the table.”, Dog: “Do…

I really like the idea of the first joke, but I don't like the execution.

Man: “Why do you always bury bones in the garden?”, Dog: “They say trick OR treat.”

Re: LLMs tell bad jokes because they avoid surprises

#114

Post by brookst »

nothrabannosir wrote: post #102
brookst wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I should have been more clear. Let me rephrase as: among those who dismiss the latest innovations as nothing special because there is still further to go, it would be nice to acknowledgment when goalposts are moved.

Maybe the people raving about LLM progress are the same people holding them to those high standards? I don’t see what’s inconsistent about it. “Due to this latest amazing algorithm, the robots keep scoring goals. What do we do? Let’s move them back a bit!” Seems like a normal way of thinking to me… I see people fawn over technical progress every day. What are they supposed to do, stop updating their expectations and…

> I mean, when I sit in a train I don’t spend half the ride saying “oh my god this is incredible, big thanks to whoever invented the wheel. So smooth!”

Two thoughts:

- In that context, neither do you expect people to be invested in why the train is nothing special, it’s basically a horse cart, etc, etc

- And maybe here’s where I’m weird: I often am overcome by the miracle of thousands of tons of metal hurtling along at 50 - 200mph, reliably, smoothly enough to work or eat, many thousands of times a day, for pennies per person per mile. I mean, I’ll get sucked in to how the latches to release the emergency windows were designed and manufactured at scale despite almost none of them ever being used. But maybe that’s just me.

Re: LLMs tell bad jokes because they avoid surprises

#115

Post by shagie »

GuB-42 wrote: post #80
Disposal8433 wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It could also be some bias on what we read or hear around us. But I agree that it's unsettling because in French we almost never make puns as "jokes." French puns have always a component of "higher literacy" that is not what we want in a joke.

Most quick jokes in French are puns in some way, including the famous "blagues Carambar". For those who don't know, Carambar is a brand of candy where the wrapper contains a joke. Always regarded a terrible, we love them anyways. Similar to dad jokes in English. The longer the joke, the less it tends to rely on puns. You don't hear puns very often in stand up comedy for instance.

https://everything2.com/title/Sir+Sufud+and+the+bear

Ages ago, there was a land that was plagued by a terrible bear with a perchance for beating up various small animals that happened to be in the area. This wouldn't be too bad, except that this was in the area with lots of sheep. Now, the sheep themselves weren't in danger, it was the sheep dogs that were threatened.

... (several paragraphs later)

The shepherds, upon hearing the great roar and crash from the cave quickly ran to the place to see a knight sprawled against a tree and a bear underneath it. The dog the bear had been bringing back, however, was alive and well and quite happy to see people again. And so, feeling quite bad for the family of the knight, the shepherds went to the king and offered family of Sir Sufud the dog he had saved from the bear.

Nothing helps the mourning after a terrible knight like the dog of a bear that hit you.

Re: LLMs tell bad jokes because they avoid surprises

#116

Post by bongodongobob »

boothby wrote: post #103
IshKebab wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A valiant defense of her joke, thanks! But no, it still doesn't make any sense as a joke and isn't funny. (Though obviously it's adorable coming from a 4 year old.)

This is the weirdest conversation about a joke that is definitely making its target audience laugh -- as a comedian, I say that's the only honest measure of a joke. But allow me to analyze the shit out of this, because the only thing funnier than a groaner is meticulously explaining the groaner. It's at least as funny as "why did the chicken cross the road," which is only a joke inasmuch the punchline is merely a sta…

It seems like you don't actually get the chicken joke. The "other side" is a euphemism for death.

Re: LLMs tell bad jokes because they avoid surprises

#117

Post by s1mplicissimus »

Cpoll wrote: post #111
canjobear wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Even 6 year olds don't understand humour at all. Very similar to LLMs they know the shape of a joke from hearing them before, but they aren't funny in the same way LLM jokes aren't funny. For further examples see a great deal of documentation here: https://www.tumblr.com/badkidsjokes

But some of these are pretty creative, perhaps in an anti-humor sort of way. Seems more of a subversion of joke structures than a lack of understanding. > A man goes to a doctor's office and says "Doctor, I'm a chicken." And the doctor says "No you're not." > There are two guys, riding a bike. One is washing his hair. And the other one is not. > What do you get when you cross a t-rex and a chicken? Nothing but death.

Seems like you stumbled over the concept of the Antiwitz. Congratulations :D

https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antiwitz

Re: LLMs tell bad jokes because they avoid surprises

#118

Post by boothby »

bongodongobob wrote: post #116
boothby wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is the weirdest conversation about a joke that is definitely making its target audience laugh -- as a comedian, I say that's the only honest measure of a joke. But allow me to analyze the shit out of this, because the only thing funnier than a groaner is meticulously explaining the groaner. It's at least as funny as "why did the chicken cross the road," which is only a joke inasmuch the punchline is merely a sta…

It seems like you don't actually get the chicken joke. The "other side" is a euphemism for death.

Heck, that just adds another level, dunnit? "The sky" being another euphemism for death, a predictable outcome of a flaming being climbing a dang tree?

And, thanks for working with my claim that analyzing jokes improves them.

Re: LLMs tell bad jokes because they avoid surprises

#119

Post by [deleted] »

Wowfunhappy wrote: post #78
brookst wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

With more thorough prompting: > Complete the following joke. Think carefully and make it really funny! Think like a great comedian and find that perfect balance of simple, short, surprising, relevant, but most of all funny. Don’t use punchlines that are irrelevant, non sequiturs, or which could be applied to any other setup. Make something funny just for this one setup! Here goes: Why did the sun climb a tree? Claude…

...can anyone come up with a legitimately funny punchline for "Why did the sun climb a tree?" I feel like I need a human-authored comparison. (With all due respect to OP's daughter, "to get to the sky" isn't cutting it.) I'm not entirely sure that a good response exists. I thought GPT-5's "to demand photon credit from the leaves” was very mildly funny, maybe that's the best that can be done?

[deleted]

Re: LLMs tell bad jokes because they avoid surprises

#120

Post by galvatron9k »

jpalomaki wrote: post #31

So I just tried with ChatGPT, with the prompt at bottom, borrowing the description of good joke from the article. I think there's some interesting stuff, even with this minimal prompting. The example below was from down the line, ChatGPT kept on offering jokes with different style. Man: “Why do you always bury bones in the garden?”, Dog: “Because the bank keeps asking for ID.” Man: “Don’t beg at the table.”, Dog: “Do…

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