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Linear sent me down a local-first rabbit hole

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Re: Linear sent me down a local-first rabbit hole

#111

Post by andrepd »

incorrecthorse wrote: post #20

> For the uninitiated, Linear is a project management tool that feels impossibly fast. Click an issue, it opens instantly. Update a status and watch in a second browser, it updates almost as fast as the source. No loading states, no page refreshes - just instant, interactions. How garbage the web has become for a low-latency click action being qualified as "impossibly fast". This is ridiculous.

It is definitely ridiculous. It's not just a nitpick too, it's ludicrous how sloooow and laggy typing text in a monstrosity like Jira is, or just reading through an average news site. Makes everything feel like a slog.

Re: Linear sent me down a local-first rabbit hole

#112

Post by andrepd »

jitl wrote: post #21
incorrecthorse wrote: post #20

> For the uninitiated, Linear is a project management tool that feels impossibly fast. Click an issue, it opens instantly. Update a status and watch in a second browser, it updates almost as fast as the source. No loading states, no page refreshes - just instant, interactions. How garbage the web has become for a low-latency click action being qualified as "impossibly fast". This is ridiculous.

A web request to a data center even with a very fast backend server will struggle to beat 8ms (120hz display) or even 16ms (60hz display), the budget for next frame painting a navigation. You need to have the data local to the device and ideally already in memory to hit 8ms navigation.

What does web request latency have to do with it? News articles or simple forms take 5 seconds to load. Why? This is not bounded by latency.

Re: Linear sent me down a local-first rabbit hole

#114

Post by chr15m »

antgiant wrote: post #81

I’ve been working on a small browser app that is local first and have been trying to figure out how to pair it with static hosting. It feels like this should be possible but so far the tooling all seems stuck in the mindset of having a server somewhere. My use case is scoring live events that may or may not have Internet connection. So normal usage is a single person but sometimes it would be nice to allow for multi…

I was in the same boat and I found Nostr is a perfect fit. You can write a 100% client side no-server app and persist your data to relays.

Here's the app I built if you want to try it out: https://github.com/chr15m/watch-later

Re: Linear sent me down a local-first rabbit hole

#115

Post by dpflug »

dustingetz wrote: post #77
Joeri wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Those are theoretical numbers for a small elite. Real world numbers for most of the planet are orders of magnitude worse.

it is my actual numbers from my house in the Philadelphia suburbs right now, 80 miles away from the EWR data center outside NYC. Feel free to double them, you’re still inside the 60hz frame budget with better than e-sports latency edit: I am 80 miles from EWR not 200

Like they said, for a small elite. If you don't see yourself as such, adjust your view.

Re: Linear sent me down a local-first rabbit hole

#116

Post by integralid »

o_m wrote: post #72
incorrecthorse wrote: post #20

> For the uninitiated, Linear is a project management tool that feels impossibly fast. Click an issue, it opens instantly. Update a status and watch in a second browser, it updates almost as fast as the source. No loading states, no page refreshes - just instant, interactions. How garbage the web has become for a low-latency click action being qualified as "impossibly fast". This is ridiculous.

Back in 2018 I worked for a client that required we used Jira. It was so slow that the project manager set everything up in Excel during our planning meetings. After the meeting she would manually transfer it to Jira. She spent most of her time doing this. Each click in the interface took multiple seconds to respond, so it was impossible to get into a flow.

At this point I think I would try to automate this pointless time sink with a script and jira API.

Re: Linear sent me down a local-first rabbit hole

#117

Post by adregan »

jallmann wrote: post #63
incorrecthorse wrote: post #20

> For the uninitiated, Linear is a project management tool that feels impossibly fast. Click an issue, it opens instantly. Update a status and watch in a second browser, it updates almost as fast as the source. No loading states, no page refreshes - just instant, interactions. How garbage the web has become for a low-latency click action being qualified as "impossibly fast". This is ridiculous.

Linear is actually so slow for me that I dread having to go into it and do stuff. I don’t care if the ticket takes 500ms to load, just give me the ticket and not a fake blinking cursor for 10 seconds or random refreshes while it (slowly) tries to re-sync. Everything I read about Linear screams over-engineering to me. It is just a ticket tracker, and a rather painful one to use at that. This seems to be endemic to the…

I hate to be a hacker news poster who responds to a positive post with negativity, but I was also surprised at the praise in the article.

I don’t find Linear to be all that quick, but apparently Mac OS thinks it’s a resource hog (or has memory leaks). I leave linear open and it perpetually has a banner that tells me it was killed and restarted because it was using too much memory. That likely colors my experience.

Re: Linear sent me down a local-first rabbit hole

#118

Post by integralid »

mike_hearn wrote: post #84
imiric wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Unless you are running some really complicated globally distributed backend your roundtrip will always be higher than 80ms for all users outside your immediate geographical area. The bottleneck is not the roundtrip time. It is the bloated and inefficient frontend frameworks, and the insane architectures built around them. Here's the creator of Datastar demonstrating a WebGL app being updated at 144FPS from the serv…

To see this first hand try this website if you're in Europe (maybe it's also fast in the US, not sure): https://www.jpro.one/ ? The entire thing is a JavaFX app (i.e. desktop app), streaming DOM diffs to the browser to render its UI. Every click is processed server side (scrolling is client side). Yet it's actually one of the faster websites out there, at least for me. It looks and feels like a really fast and modern…

>the only time you know it's not the same thing is if you go offline or have bad connectivity.

So, like most of the non-first world? Hell, I'm in a smaller town/village next to my capital city for a month and internet connection is unreliable.

Having said that, the website was usable for me - I wouldn't say it's noticeably fast, but it was not show either.

Re: Linear sent me down a local-first rabbit hole

#119

Post by victorbjorklund »

integralid wrote: post #116
o_m wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Back in 2018 I worked for a client that required we used Jira. It was so slow that the project manager set everything up in Excel during our planning meetings. After the meeting she would manually transfer it to Jira. She spent most of her time doing this. Each click in the interface took multiple seconds to respond, so it was impossible to get into a flow.

At this point I think I would try to automate this pointless time sink with a script and jira API.

100%. Their API isnt even bad. I made a script to pull lots of statistics and stuff from jira.

Re: Linear sent me down a local-first rabbit hole

#120

Post by virgil_disgr4ce »

mentalgear wrote: post #27

Local-First & Sync-Engines are the future. Here's a great filterable datatable overview of the local-first framework landscape: https://www.localfirst.fm/landscape My favorite so far is Triplit.dev (which can also be combined with TanStack DB); 2 more I like to explore are PowerSync and NextGraph. Also, the recent LocalFirst Conf has some great videos, currently watching the NextGraph one ( https://www.youtube.com/wa…

Thank you for this, I'm going to have to check out Triplit. Have you tried InstantDB? It's the one I've been most interested in trying but haven't yet.
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