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Terence Tao on the suspension of UCLA grants

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Re: Terence Tao on the suspension of UCLA grants

#111

Post by kergonath »

delusional wrote: post #53
roenxi wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The US BLS does seem to have a bit of a history [0] with their job reporting though. The process they've been using appears biased to over report initially and then get revised down over time. I'm sure there are a lot of political considerations, but from a raw statistical perspective there is a pretty easy path to getting better results. They could eliminate the optimistic bias and aim for accuracy. If it were me I'…

> If it were me I'd be sacking people Why sack them? It's not like they refused to mean adjust or failed to do so. The numbers came out, and before anybody has even had a chance to question them. Before any coherent criticism as had time to root, the person responsible is fired. Firing people is not how you get more accurate numbers. It's how you get yes-men.

> Firing people is not how you get more accurate numbers. It's how you get yes-men.

When reality and truth do not matter, why would they want accurate numbers? They do not need the country to flourish, they just need their personal wealth to grow and the rest of the population to remain compliant. From that point of view, shooting the messenger before the message gets out of control makes perfect sense. It is working well enough for many autocratic regimes around the world.

Re: Terence Tao on the suspension of UCLA grants

#112

Post by defrost »

davrosthedalek wrote: post #104
defrost wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree that is unacceptable, however it's unclear whether your colleagues received death threats for supporting Palestine or supporting Israel.

From what I know, some received the death threats because they were Jewish, some because they supported Israel. One of them had the photos of the missing hostages up on the door. They were torn down repeatedly.

It's a strongly divisive issue. A number of the protestors on campus were Jewish and upset with the behaviour of factions in Israel. From my reading of material across several countries and various points of view a lot of death threats were thrown about at a great many people spanning all sides of the dispute.

Re: Terence Tao on the suspension of UCLA grants

#113

Post by hcknwscommenter »

aborsy wrote: post #61
noelwelsh wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Governments typically fund research because 1) it's seen as beneficial for the country, and hence falls under the remit of governments in democratic countries and 2) the uncertainty, time frame, or lack of direct commercialization of research typically means the private sector will not invest in it. Your suggestion is saying that research should be privatised, and shows very little thought about how research works an…

Research 50 years ago, sure. Research now is very different. It’s short term, chasing money, trends, citations, prestige, hierarchy, academic power, and applications. Public should fund only the useful part of it.

You clearly didn't read the article. Dr. Tao provides a concrete example of the type of funding that very recently lead to an order of magnitude speedup of MRI imaging and likely has many military uses he is not allowed to speak about (my speculation but I'd bet on it). Your statement is false.

Re: Terence Tao on the suspension of UCLA grants

#114

Post by kergonath »

bsaul wrote: post #63
kzrdude wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Then it's maybe not a free country anymore if you have to think about how your actions are perceived by the president in power at every step.

i agree with you, but i think it's been the case in the US for the past 15 years already. The only difference is trump pushing toward different issues than biden.

Which president did anything like this anywhere close to that scale? You are getting confused by propaganda.

Re: Terence Tao on the suspension of UCLA grants

#115

Post by luckylion »

kzrdude wrote: post #25
ekianjo wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

thats why they should refrain from engaging in politics in the first place. the day the wind changes you lose.

Then it's maybe not a free country anymore if you have to think about how your actions are perceived by the president in power at every step.

You don't though, unless your funding depends on him. If you're a contractor for Oracle, you'll probably get in trouble if you loudly proclaim different values than them - but that doesn't make it a non-free country.

Re: Terence Tao on the suspension of UCLA grants

#116

Post by tomp »

fabian2k wrote: post #86
tomp wrote: post #8

[flagged]

Antisemitism is a pretext here, the Trump administration is targeting organizations that it considers too liberal.

Well, obviously. “Too liberal” just means “racist” these days. It’s an evil ideology, the fight against it is righteous.

Re: Terence Tao on the suspension of UCLA grants

#117

Post by davrosthedalek »

lars_francke wrote: post #51
spwa4 wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Really? The situation in China (and Europe, for that matter) is far worse. Obviously Europe is much better than China for academics, but the US is still miles above that. So sorry, that won't happen. This will "just" disappear, with no replacement.

In which way is the situation far worse in Europe?

Funding levels are lower. Salaries are lower. In physics, from the places I know in the US, about half of the faculty is foreign, and about 30% is German. This is at top universities. That wouldn't be the case if these people would find similar conditions in Europe. But it can change quickly.

Re: Terence Tao on the suspension of UCLA grants

#118

Post by FirmwareBurner »

davrosthedalek wrote: post #110
FirmwareBurner wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Fraunhofer Institute and the Max Planck Institute are perpetually well-funded, and are largely unaffected by politics Oh, so I can freely go up against the German government's policies and have my career in academia unaffected and keep my government funding? I lived in Germany and don't remember people or organisations ever being able to break government rules with no consequences (unless they had high friends in po…

As long as you are not a "Beamte", i.e. a special case of state employee, yes.

Sorry I don't buy it. Which examples are there of academics going against the government policies and still keeping their jobs and funds?

I lived in Germany and the moment you don't do what the government says you get the full shaft. Nobody let's you rebel against the government with no consequences, not in US, not in Germany, not in UK, nowhere.

People painting Germany like a bastion of free speech are coping hard. Only if you consider free speech doing and saying only what the government says.

Re: Terence Tao on the suspension of UCLA grants

#119

Post by tialaramex »

kangalioo wrote: post #71
noir_lord wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the most powerful country in the world. For now, I live in the former most powerful country in the world prior to the rise of the US.

Which is, the UK? China?

The UK. It had this huge navy, which amusingly is where its central bank comes from. An English Parliament wanted to buy the greatest navy the world had ever seen but that's very expensive, so their cunning scheme was, license some business people to run an exclusive Bank of England, secured by the word of the British government, the income from this funds a navy and the successors of that navy were still dominant into the 20th century.

The fact that the Bank of England was historically a private business is awkward when it comes to explaining to some modern country why it's not OK that their central bank is giving the leader's nephew $100M in unsecured loans, and this sort of discomfort is part of why it was bought by the British government and gradually ceased operating as a private bank in my lifetime. When I was younger I knew people whose mortgage was issued by the country's central bank. Not like celebrities or politicians or anything, just bureaucrats who got a good deal, sort of "mates rates" but for a house loan.

Re: Terence Tao on the suspension of UCLA grants

#120

Post by n3storm »

fxtentacle wrote: post #76

3 months ago, we were all wondering why the EU proudly launched their "Choose EU for Science" campaign, despite having much lower funding levels than in the US. If they predicted this, then their actions would make a lot of sense. It is notoriously difficult for scientists to change careers after years in research. For people cut off from US funding like this, a EU-guaranteed middle-class income will appear much more…

"prediction" skills was not needed.

Intelligent, smart, critical citizens are a nuisance for absocapitalism goals.

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