What does connecting with someone mean? • Hacker News Board

Re: What does connecting with someone mean?

#111

Post by anonymars » Sat, Jul 26, 2025, 2:16 PM UTC

scarface_74 wrote: post #89

em-bee wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

this discussion reminds me of the quote by george bernard shaw: "The reasonable person adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable person"

And how has that worked out? Right now today, people are more willing to hurt themselves as long as they “own the libs”, see immigrants get mistreated, make sure Israel is protected so Jesus has somewhere to come back to (no exaggeration and I have no opinion on what Israel is doing. I don’t know enough), and non straight non Christians are treated as second class citizens. The problem that Democrats and liberals hav…

Do you see the irony of stereotyping a large and diverse group of people based on the actions of an extreme few?

I take away a very different lesson. Folks who are shocked at the outcomes aren't listening to what others are saying. In fact I think that it's precisely because they have been ignored, dismissed, and treated with condescension that things have come to this and this anger has festered. Folks left behind by a system that has sold them out and left them without hope for a better tomorrow. I feel Bernie would have beat Trump in 2016, because he was speaking to the same message and was also not part of that status quo system. As FDR said in 1938, "I venture the challenging statement that if American democracy ceases to move forward as a living force, seeking day and night by peaceful means to better the lot of our citizens, fascism...will grow in strength in our land."

Of course malign actors have taken advantage of this and lied to people and told them what they wanted to hear, and the naked sabotage of the bipartisan immigration reform bill is par for the course from the same crew that sabotaged Vietnam peace talks in '68 (and possibly the Iran hostages in '80). Nevertheless, too often any concerns about immigration are immediately dismissed as racist. (This theme holds for other topics but I don't want to dilute the point). The politically connected know this stuff, but the "garbage in, garbage out" rule applies to humans and media consumption too. I blame the liars more than those who were lied to.

PS, I found that Davis himself has addressed this topic:

> “Every racist that I know—and I know a lot of racists—every racist that I know voted for Donald Trump,” Davis said near the end of the interview. “However,” he added, “that does not, and I expressly repeat it, that does not mean that everybody who voted for Donald Trump is a racist. There are plenty of people, including good friends of mine, who are not racist, and who voted for Trump. A lot of people wanted a change from what they were accustomed to for the last decades … they wanted a change of the status quo, a changing of the guard. And they were willing to overlook his misogyny, his racist or bigoted comments. They just wanted that change. They were are not racist people. But every racist I know did vote for him.”

Re: What does connecting with someone mean?

#112

Post by scarface_74 » Sat, Jul 26, 2025, 3:40 PM UTC

anonymars wrote: post #111

scarface_74 wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And how has that worked out? Right now today, people are more willing to hurt themselves as long as they “own the libs”, see immigrants get mistreated, make sure Israel is protected so Jesus has somewhere to come back to (no exaggeration and I have no opinion on what Israel is doing. I don’t know enough), and non straight non Christians are treated as second class citizens. The problem that Democrats and liberals hav…

Do you see the irony of stereotyping a large and diverse group of people based on the actions of an extreme few? I take away a very different lesson. Folks who are shocked at the outcomes aren't listening to what others are saying. In fact I think that it's precisely because they have been ignored, dismissed, and treated with condescension that things have come to this and this anger has festered. Folks left behind b…

If (the royal) you turn a blind eye and making excuses to someone who is systemically putting policies in place and demonizing people of different races and sexuality, you are part of the problem. There is a huge difference between deporting people who are here illegally (something Obama did more than Trump) and demonizing them and saying they are eating pets.

No I don’t agree with the chucking and jiving Davis. Just like if you belong to a church that spews racist non sense or defend Liberty University that until very recently made interracial dating against the rules, (again the royal “you”) are not someone that I can be friends with.

Yes you did have two bad choices and I know people who didn’t vote for Trump as much as they voted against Kamala and the entire vomit inducing DEI, allyship indoctrination that I had to endure during my stint at BigTech.

And stop blaming the politicians. We have seen time and time again that when conservative outlets veered even slightly toward not agreeing with Trump, people abandoned them.

Even today 40% of the population agree what Trump is doing. This gets back to the naive belief that liberals have that you can change the hearts and minds of rural evangelical Christians who have been all about grievances since before my parents were born even if you have a “some good ones”, they are still supporting the system and not speaking out.

Re: What does connecting with someone mean?

#113

Post by scarface_74 » Sat, Jul 26, 2025, 5:10 PM UTC

idiotsecant wrote: post #108

JustExAWS wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is honestly a naive take and probably comes from someone who is not a minority (I am) or someone who didn’t grow up in the south. It reminds me of the vomit inducing DEI training I was forced to endure and the “allyship” BS when I did my stint at BigTech between 2020-2023. There are deeply religious people who sincerely think from decades of growing up being indoctrinated in the church who believe that miscegena…

It's not naive to choose to see the best parts of people and hope that they can change to be the best version of themselves. Not everyone will change, but some will. When we let our damage accumulate to the point that we stop believing that we do a disservice to ourselves most of all. It doesn't mean we should march into a pit of bears wearing a pineapple glaze, it means that we hope for the best and don't let it bre…

My spirit isn’t “broken” those people - the ones who actively support the demonization of “other” are irrelevant to me unless they are in a position to bring me harm - mostly law enforcement these days.

I see people individually how they treat people and who they surround themselves with. Don’t tell me there are “good people” who support Liberty University or who don’t speak out in churches when the leadership supports politicians and policies that demonize others.

And even then, I’m fine with ministers who say they refuse to marry gay people or allow the ceremonies in their churches. That’s there right to have a backwards belief.

Re: What does connecting with someone mean?

#114

Post by anonymars » Sat, Jul 26, 2025, 6:32 PM UTC

scarface_74 wrote: post #112

anonymars wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you see the irony of stereotyping a large and diverse group of people based on the actions of an extreme few? I take away a very different lesson. Folks who are shocked at the outcomes aren't listening to what others are saying. In fact I think that it's precisely because they have been ignored, dismissed, and treated with condescension that things have come to this and this anger has festered. Folks left behind b…

If (the royal) you turn a blind eye and making excuses to someone who is systemically putting policies in place and demonizing people of different races and sexuality, you are part of the problem. There is a huge difference between deporting people who are here illegally (something Obama did more than Trump) and demonizing them and saying they are eating pets. No I don’t agree with the chucking and jiving Davis. Just…

I don't consider it turning a blind eye, quite the opposite. I don't think that not interacting with "bad people" will make the problem go away. Just telling people they are wrong for thinking something doesn't generally change one's mind (https://pbfcomics.com/comics/deeply-held-beliefs/)

I'm not saying kumbaya, why can't we all get along, let bygones be bygones. I'm not naive, I am saying a very simple truth: folks will go where they are accepted and listened to. You may not agree with them and they may think stupid and bad things. Too bad! Those are the facts on the ground and we must deal with them. If we just plug our ears and shun them, guess who are the only people who will listen to and accept them (very basic human needs, after all)?

Again, this is not a value judgment, and no one is saying everyone should go proselytize in the lion's den. But given that people do exist with beliefs we don't like, what then, do we just skip to "civil war" to solve the problem?

I'm also not so naive to think that we can just empathize our way out of this. It's not a fair fight, so to speak, there is a ton of money flowing the opposite way, amplifying falsehoods and exaggerations. In fact I do think it's a losing battle. But when the opportunity presents itself in the right circumstances I cannot turn away

And so then, why the hell shouldn't we blame those who are cynically and stoking feeding this hate, knowingly trafficking in falsehoods? (As in your example of eating the pets)

Re: What does connecting with someone mean?

#115

Post by scarface_74 » Sun, Jul 27, 2025, 2:59 PM UTC

anonymars wrote: post #114

scarface_74 wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If (the royal) you turn a blind eye and making excuses to someone who is systemically putting policies in place and demonizing people of different races and sexuality, you are part of the problem. There is a huge difference between deporting people who are here illegally (something Obama did more than Trump) and demonizing them and saying they are eating pets. No I don’t agree with the chucking and jiving Davis. Just…

I don't consider it turning a blind eye, quite the opposite. I don't think that not interacting with "bad people" will make the problem go away. Just telling people they are wrong for thinking something doesn't generally change one's mind ( https://pbfcomics.com/comics/deeply-held-beliefs/ ) I'm not saying kumbaya, why can't we all get along, let bygones be bygones. I'm not naive, I am saying a very simple truth: fol…

And now you seem to minimize “disagreement”. We aren’t talking about disagreeing on policy. We are talking about them disagreeing on someone’s fundamental right to exist as an individual and to be treated with respect. My son went to high school and still lives in a majority White suburb of Atlanta (we moved). He’s dates exclusively White girls. Not because of racism. That’s just who is in his circle. It’s never been an issue with relatives.

But there are people who still would think that interracial dating is a “sin”. He knows that and I told him to ignore those people. They don’t affect his life and don’t let them affect his happiness.

Re: What does connecting with someone mean?

#116

Post by anonymars » Sun, Jul 27, 2025, 9:25 PM UTC

scarface_74 wrote: post #115

anonymars wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't consider it turning a blind eye, quite the opposite. I don't think that not interacting with "bad people" will make the problem go away. Just telling people they are wrong for thinking something doesn't generally change one's mind ( https://pbfcomics.com/comics/deeply-held-beliefs/ ) I'm not saying kumbaya, why can't we all get along, let bygones be bygones. I'm not naive, I am saying a very simple truth: fol…

And now you seem to minimize “disagreement”. We aren’t talking about disagreeing on policy. We are talking about them disagreeing on someone’s fundamental right to exist as an individual and to be treated with respect. My son went to high school and still lives in a majority White suburb of Atlanta (we moved). He’s dates exclusively White girls. Not because of racism. That’s just who is in his circle. It’s never been…

It wasn't at all my intent to reduce or equate bigotry to policy disagreements. I was only saying that it is inaccurate to conclude people are irredeemably bigoted solely based on their votes

Politicians won by listening to the discarded and disaffected, though many did so with lies and/or spreading/stoking racist nonsense

I am also in no way saying this explains everyone, just "most x are y" doesn't mean "most y are x"

Re: What does connecting with someone mean?

#117

Post by anonymars » Sun, Jul 27, 2025, 9:35 PM UTC

47282847 wrote: post #102

scarface_74 wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes and because $TechFounder can drop out of school and become a multi billionaire, you can too. It’s “Survivorshio Bias” at its finest.

The narrative of the college dropout turning billionaire is a myth, at least insofar as it ignores their already wealthy family background. Nothing about survivorship in there.

I believe the point is "here's how I dropped out of college and became rich, you can too" has the survivorship bias of "here are all the college dropouts who didn't become rich"

This is the case with most success story biographies because luck (including "be born to a rich family with connections") plays a large role, and many others who took similar actions did not have the same successful result, therefore the advice does not guarantee success

Of course the same could be said for any advice, because chance plays a role in everything

I think it's a valid question, though: are you going to fail with empathy 9 times out of 10? 99 times out of 100? 999 times out of a thousand? And so on.

I'm not sure what the answer is, but what I do think is it has better odds than telling people what they are supposed to think.

What about shunning people? Well, I think in the past that could have gone either way: their choice was to either fit in with society or be alone. But now, everyone can find their fringey flock, which I think is why flat earthers and moon landing hoaxers are more of a thing than they were. It's not as much about the beliefs as it is the social club.

Re: What does connecting with someone mean?

#118

Post by scarface_74 » Mon, Jul 28, 2025, 5:49 AM UTC

anonymars wrote: post #117

47282847 wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The narrative of the college dropout turning billionaire is a myth, at least insofar as it ignores their already wealthy family background. Nothing about survivorship in there.

I believe the point is "here's how I dropped out of college and became rich, you can too" has the survivorship bias of "here are all the college dropouts who didn't become rich" This is the case with most success story biographies because luck (including "be born to a rich family with connections") plays a large role, and many others who took similar actions did not have the same successful result, therefore the advi…

Again, people are suggesting that I as a Black person should “empathize” with someone who doesn’t feel like I should get equal treatment, doesn’t belong in their space, etc.

But in today’s society, it’s not allowed for politicians or anyone to be openly hostile toward Black people. So they choose immigrants, non straight people or non Christians. Those people don’t deserve “empathy”.

Re: What does connecting with someone mean?

#119

Post by 47282847 » Mon, Jul 28, 2025, 8:40 AM UTC

scarface_74 wrote: post #118

anonymars wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I believe the point is "here's how I dropped out of college and became rich, you can too" has the survivorship bias of "here are all the college dropouts who didn't become rich" This is the case with most success story biographies because luck (including "be born to a rich family with connections") plays a large role, and many others who took similar actions did not have the same successful result, therefore the advi…

Again, people are suggesting that I as a Black person should “empathize” with someone who doesn’t feel like I should get equal treatment, doesn’t belong in their space, etc. But in today’s society, it’s not allowed for politicians or anyone to be openly hostile toward Black people. So they choose immigrants, non straight people or non Christians. Those people don’t deserve “empathy”.

I think what is happening often is people having different definitions of “empathy“. For me, it is “feeling with“, being in a shared space of feelings; it’s not a cognitive skill but emotional - they are equally human/living creatures and I can sense their underlying emotions and thus reason about their motivations. This means I can both empathize and have a different point of view. Empathy, for me, does not imply sympathy, agreement or submission.