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The bewildering phenomenon of declining quality

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Re: The bewildering phenomenon of declining quality

#111

Post by Pingk »

Arn_Thor wrote: post #105
drdec wrote: post #98

Most of the people on this board are upper middle to lower upper class (thinking American, apologies to my non US friends). Such people can afford products outside the grasp of most Americans. What naturally happens to such products is that the manufacturers find a way to broaden their customer base. They find ways to bring the price point down so they can sell more. For most people this is a boon. They can afford a…

The parable of boots seems apt here. In the extreme, expensive pair can last for a decade while people who can only afford the cheap pair will have to keep buying a new one every year. Yes, the fact that any family can afford a new shelving unit is great! But the fact that it’ll last them just a few years is not good; they’ll spend more in the long run

Except it's getting so difficult to find the companies producing the more durable alternative, so everyone is forced to buy the flimsy piece that falls apart

Re: The bewildering phenomenon of declining quality

#112

Post by zkmon »

I live in a developed country. People buy a new home here, and find the kitchen counter top surface bulges up easily when a hot plate is placed on it. Turns out that the surface is a laminate that is not heat resistant.

Family business houses used to invest in long-term success through brand, reputation and durability. Startups or hired CEOs focus on short-term goals and invest in creating superficial perceptions that can help the sale.

Re: The bewildering phenomenon of declining quality

#113

Post by cantor_S_drug »

mayas_ wrote: post #96
jstummbillig wrote: post #39

Quality has improved across many dimensions in nearly every domain I’m familiar with. In fact, I’d argue there are very few products or services that couldn’t be made today to a higher standard than at any point in the past, if we chose to prioritize that. But what’s often mistaken for a decline in quality is really a shift in priorities: toward affordability, efficiency, and accessibility. And that’s fantastic. Prod…

Not quite sure about the affordability part. Cars are becoming prohibitively expensive. Housing is becoming a luxury. Even consumer products are becoming increasingly expensive. Safety largely improved but not craftsmanship.

That is uniquely american or first world experience. I won't comment on the mechanisms of wealth transfer from rest of the world to first world. The rest of the world has been very hardworking and trying to make it one day at a time. Here's an example.

A Day in Life of Africa’s Wooden Scooter Crew

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yzL3vZ6jDSk

Re: The bewildering phenomenon of declining quality

#115

Post by jstummbillig »

mayas_ wrote: post #96
jstummbillig wrote: post #39

Quality has improved across many dimensions in nearly every domain I’m familiar with. In fact, I’d argue there are very few products or services that couldn’t be made today to a higher standard than at any point in the past, if we chose to prioritize that. But what’s often mistaken for a decline in quality is really a shift in priorities: toward affordability, efficiency, and accessibility. And that’s fantastic. Prod…

Not quite sure about the affordability part. Cars are becoming prohibitively expensive. Housing is becoming a luxury. Even consumer products are becoming increasingly expensive. Safety largely improved but not craftsmanship.

> Cars are becoming prohibitively expensive.

Adjusted for inflation, car prices are actually lower now than decades ago, especially factoring in huge safety and tech improvements. Entry-level models remain affordable, while buyers voluntarily pay more for SUVs and tech-heavy EVs.

> Housing is becoming a luxury.

Rising housing prices are mostly driven by land scarcity and zoning. The actual cost per square meter of construction (build quality) has improved and remains stable.

> Even consumer products are becoming increasingly expensive.

Nope. Electronics, clothing, and appliances have become dramatically cheaper. Quality-adjusted prices for TVs and computers have plummeted.

> Safety largely improved but not craftsmanship.

Craftsmanship is alive and well, if you are willing to pay for it. Which most consumers are not; they prefer being able to afford more things at lower prices and quicker tech cycles.

Re: The bewildering phenomenon of declining quality

#116

Post by cantor_S_drug »

fym wrote: post #109

The author is romanticizing a past that never was. A deep sense of melancholy clouds his writing. I always find it puzzling how some pathologies manage to disguise themselves as wisdom.

Southpark is always prescient in this regard. Memberberries has been a meme on reddit for ages. Maybe the author should immerse himself in popular culture so that the same objections that are commonly made could be avoided.

Re: The bewildering phenomenon of declining quality

#118

Post by gilfoy »

forgotusername6 wrote: post #108
raspasov wrote: post #43

"Following his reasoning, it cannot be stated in absolute terms that an iPhone 15 is of “better quality” than a 2003 Nokia." This statement suffers from either viewing the past through rose-tinted glasses or from total cultural relativism in the most pejorative sense. I'm not sure about 2003, but around 2009, I owned a Nokia N900, which was arguably the flagship Nokia phone at the time. I can confidently state that c…

I owned a Nokia in 2003. The battery lasted a week and they were virtually indestructible. The phone never crashed or reset, the keys were so reliable and well placed that I could text without looking at the screen. The phone did not get slower with age. None of these things can be said about my current smart phone. Granted it does a lot more, but the quality of the things it does do is much worse.

> virtually indestructible

Owned a Nokia in 2003 as well and it was destructed by some water. It had no Nokia Care and my grandma refused to buy me a new one.

> text without looking at the screen

I do it all the time by dictating.

Re: The bewildering phenomenon of declining quality

#119

Post by Macha »

frereubu wrote: post #11
anarticle wrote: post #5

This article is really trying to gaslight us into believing it is only pessimism, when decline in quality is very real. The best example is that ikea no longer sells solid wood tables, they are particle board with wood grain stickers. The exciting part is they are more expensive than the original hardwood versions.

That's what Ikea furniture has been made of for as long as I can remember (a few decades).

Ikea has had a few tiers of furniture. You could always get chipboard etc. stuff at the cheaper ranges but they used to have more better choices on their higher ranges.

Re: The bewildering phenomenon of declining quality

#120

Post by weinzierl »

raspasov wrote: post #69
blueflow wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm surprised. What is the objective aspect of quality? Can you have quality without a human-intended purpose?

How about empirical instead of objective? I think objective vs subjective can be a false dichotomy in terms of quality. For example, when my phone connects to WiFi as soon as I get home every time, correctly, for the last many years, that's very strong empirical evidence of quality.

According to the Kano model what is perceived as quality changes over time for a product category.

Ten years ago your phone reliably connecting to WiFi was a "Delighter" over the course of time it turned over a "Want" into a "Must Have".

I'd say empirical evidence of quality is strongest in the "Want" phase but if something is considered a given and ubiquitously fulfilled, can it still function as a strong empirical indicator of quality?

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