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A 14kb page can load much faster than a 15kb page (2022)

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Re: A 14kb page can load much faster than a 15kb page (2022)

#111
The article has IMO two flawed arguments:

1. There is math for how long it takes to send even one packet over satellite connection (~1600ms). Its a weak argument for the 14kb rule since there is no comparison with a larger website. 10 packets wont necessarily take 16 seconds.

2. There is a mention that images on webpage are included in this 14kb rule. In what case are images inlined to a page’s initial load? If this is a special case and 99.9% of images don’t follow it, it should be mentioned at very least.

Re: A 14kb page can load much faster than a 15kb page (2022)

#112

I agree with the sentiment here, the thing is, I've noticed that the newer generations are using frameworks like Next.js as default for building simple static websites. That's their bare bone start. The era of plain html + css (and maybe a sprinkle of js) feels like it's fading away, sadly.

I think that makes sense.

I have done the hyper optimised, inline resource, no blocking script, hand minimised JS, 14kb website thing before and the problem with doing it the "hard" way is it traps you in a design and architecture.

When your requirements change all the minimalistic choices that seemed so efficient and web-native start turning into technical debt. Everyone fantasises about "no frameworks" until the project is no longer a toy.

Whereas the isomorphic JS frameworks let you have your cake and eat it: you can start with something that spits out compiled pages and optimise it to get performant _enough_, but you can fall back to thick client JavaScript if necessary.

Re: A 14kb page can load much faster than a 15kb page (2022)

#113
It’s not really relevant in 2025…

The HTTPS negotiation is going to consume the initial roundtrips which should start increasing the size of the window

Modern CDNs start with larger initial windows and also pace the packets onto the network to reduce the chances of congesting

There’s also a question as to how relevant the 14kb rule has ever been… HTML renders progressively so as long as there’s some meaningful content in the early packets then overall size is less important

Re: A 14kb page can load much faster than a 15kb page (2022)

#115
post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, the environmental impact of jackasses mining jackass coin, or jackasses training LLMs is not insignificant. Are you seriously telling me now that if my website is 256k or 1024k I'm responsible for destroying the planet? Take it out on your masters. And no, reducing resource use to the minimum in the name of sustainability does not scale down the same way it scales up. You're just pushing the idea that all human…

> the environmental impact of jackasses mining jackass coin, or jackasses training LLMs is not insignificant Whataboutism. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whataboutism > You're just pushing the idea that all human activity is some sort of disease that's best disposed of. That's essentially just wishing the worst on your own species for being successful. Strawmaning. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man Every blo…

>> Every bloody mention of the environmental impact of our activities gets at least a reply like yours that ticks one of these boxes.

That's a sweeping misunderstanding of what I wrote, so I'd ask that you re-read what I said in response to the specific quote.

Re: A 14kb page can load much faster than a 15kb page (2022)

#116
post #79
post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That’s not what I said. Only that the responsible engineers know which tradeoffs they make, and are competent enough to do so.

The decision to use react for the start menu wasnt out of competency. The guy said on twitter that thats what he knew so he used it [1]. Didnt think twice. Head empty no thoughts 1 https://x.com/philtrem22/status/1927161666732523596

Please do share any evidence to the contrary, but it seems that the Tweet is not serious and is not from someone who worked on the Start Menu.

Re: A 14kb page can load much faster than a 15kb page (2022)

#117
post #10

Aside from latency, reducing ressources consumption to the minimum required should always be a concern if we intend to have a sustainable future. The environmental impact of our network is not negligible. Given the snarky comments here, we clearly have a long way to go. EDIT: some reply missed my point, I am not claiming this particular optimization is the holy grail, only that I'd have liked for added benefit of red…

The vast majority of internet bandwidth is people streaming video. Shaving a few megs from a webpage load would be the tiniest drop in the bucket. I am all for efficiency, but optimizing everywhere is a recipe for using up the resources to actually optimize where it matters.

I feel this way sometimes about recycling. I am very diligent about it, washing out my cans and jars, separating my plastics. And then I watch my neighbour fill our bin with plastic bottles, last-season clothes and uneaten food.

Re: A 14kb page can load much faster than a 15kb page (2022)

#118
post #10

Aside from latency, reducing ressources consumption to the minimum required should always be a concern if we intend to have a sustainable future. The environmental impact of our network is not negligible. Given the snarky comments here, we clearly have a long way to go. EDIT: some reply missed my point, I am not claiming this particular optimization is the holy grail, only that I'd have liked for added benefit of red…

The vast majority of internet bandwidth is people streaming video. Shaving a few megs from a webpage load would be the tiniest drop in the bucket. I am all for efficiency, but optimizing everywhere is a recipe for using up the resources to actually optimize where it matters.

I feel better about limiting the size of my drop in the bucket than I would feel about just saying my drop doesn't matter even if it doesn't matter. I get my internet through my phone's hotspot with its 15gig a month plan, I generally don't use the entire 15gigs. My phone and and laptop are pretty much the only high tech I have, audio interface is probably third in line and my oven is probably fourth (self cleaning). Furnace stays at 50 all winter long even when it is -40 out and if it is above freezing the furnace is turned off. Never had a car, walk and bike everywhere including groceries and laundry, have only used motorized transport maybe a dozen times in the past decade.

A nice side effect of these choices is that I only spend a small part of my pay. Never had a credit card, never had debt, just saved my money until I had enough that the purchase was no big deal.

I don't really have an issue with people who say that their drop does not matter so why should they worry, but I don't understand it, seems like they just needlessly complicate their life. Not too long ago my neighbor was bragging about how effective all the money he spent on energy efficient windows, insulation, etc, was, he saved loads of money that winter; his heating bill was still nearly three times what mine was despite using a wood stove to offset his heating bill, my house being almost the same size, barely insulated and having 70 year old windows. I just put on a sweater instead of turning up the heat.

Edit: Sorry about that sentence, not quite awake yet and doubt I will be awake enough to fix it before editing window closes.

Re: A 14kb page can load much faster than a 15kb page (2022)

#119
post #116
post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The decision to use react for the start menu wasnt out of competency. The guy said on twitter that thats what he knew so he used it [1]. Didnt think twice. Head empty no thoughts 1 https://x.com/philtrem22/status/1927161666732523596

Please do share any evidence to the contrary, but it seems that the Tweet is not serious and is not from someone who worked on the Start Menu.

No way people on HN are falling for bait Tweets. We're cooked

Re: A 14kb page can load much faster than a 15kb page (2022)

#120
This looks like such an interesting articles, but it's completely ruined by the fact that every sentence is its own paragraph.

I swear I am not just trying to be a dick here. If I didn't think it had great content I wouldn't have commented. But I feel like I'm reading a LinkedIn post. Please join some of those sentences up into paragraphs!

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