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Apple's Browser Engine Ban Persists, Even Under the DMA

open-web-advocacy.org

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Re: Apple's Browser Engine Ban Persists, Even Under the DMA

#111

Post by chrismorgan »

conradfr wrote: post #107
chrismorgan wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You’ll only get rates like that if you’re reserving at least a month’s usage. For small amounts of usage, the cheapest I’ve ever seen is $1 per hour, with a minimum spend past $30, with various further strings attached. And most are much more than that.

Apple has a 24h minimum mandate so I guess I stand corrected. But it's not $1 per hour. https://www.scaleway.com/en/pricing/apple-silicon/

OK, that does look like it actually is only €2.64 per day. Having looked carefully a few years ago and briefly skimmed now, the absolute cheapest other provider I’ve seen in small quantities was over 8× that price.

Re: Apple's Browser Engine Ban Persists, Even Under the DMA

#113

Post by pxeger1 »

Relatedly, all Google apps (e.g. Maps) on iOS try very hard to push Chrome on you (even though iOS Chrome still has to use WebKit). When you click an external link, they present you the options of Chrome, Google (the search app), or Safari. This happens even if you don't have Chrome/Google installed, so they take you to the App Store instead of opening the webpage. If you choose Safari, it still doesn't open Safari, it opens a web view inside Google Maps, from where you have to press yet another button to get it to open as a actual Safari tab. The menu has a "remember my choice for next time" switch, but it seems to reset every few times so it constantly re-nags you.

If the link goes to something that should open in another app (e.g. goes to instagram.com when I have the Instagram app installed), unless I satisfy its demands to install Chrome, it takes like 3 extra clicks to open in that other app.

Re: Apple's Browser Engine Ban Persists, Even Under the DMA

#114

Post by FirmwareBurner »

jjani wrote: post #105
ezst wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tech giants need to be dismantled.

Western governments just need to toughen up. If China tells Apple to stop doing something by next Monday, they'll have it changed by then. "But due process!!". For individuals and SMEs, sure. For mega companies, absolutely not . Getting to rake in billions of profits should come with a loss of privileges, not with a gain. That needs to be the trade-off.

>But due process!!".

If only they would give the same due process to the users and app devs before they close their accounts.

Companies want and exploit all the perks of the liberal democratic western societies that helped them make what they are today and reciprocate with defying the laws and tax avoidance, while bowing down to foreign dictatorships no problem.

The only way you stop them abusing this is to put an executive to jail. Because that's why they instantly bow down to China. Braking the law in China is a legal problem with personal accountability, breaking the law in the west is just an accounting problem that you can easily pay your way out of.

The moment you put someone in jail, everyone stops breaking the law immediately, because nobody likes the idea of going to jail.

Re: Apple's Browser Engine Ban Persists, Even Under the DMA

#115

Post by sexy_seedbox »

kyriakos wrote: post #110
sexy_seedbox wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Install "Choose Browser": https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=de.ub0r.androi... I have this installed and all links I can choose between Kiwi Browser or Firefox.

Isn't kiwi discontinued?

Yes, last update was April 2025. Their developer recommends users to move to MS Edge, which I have not made the switch just yet.

Re: Apple's Browser Engine Ban Persists, Even Under the DMA

#116

Post by Jyaif »

robin_reala wrote: post #50
Jyaif wrote: post #44

> Safari is the highest margin product Apple has ever made. Anybody has the number of committers to webkit from Apple? It would give us a good idea on the margin of the product. Assuming 100 engineers costing Apple 500k per year, that's 50 millions in investment for 20 billion in revenue. > For each 1% browser market share that Apple loses for Safari, Apple is set to lose $200 million in revenue per year. They should…

Why would you only count engineers?

Same reason I choose 500k, it's an approximation.

Re: Apple's Browser Engine Ban Persists, Even Under the DMA

#117

Post by disgruntledphd2 »

Fluorescence wrote: post #97
kosinus wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think that is true when you initially switch and are still comparing browsers, but I certainly no longer check if something broken happens to work in Chrome. Stuff may equally be broken by my adblocker. Too lazy to debug someone else's work.

Too often the only sites I find are broken in Firefox are "necessary" things like financial and medical things. I rarely see any issue with hobby and nonsense sites where "laziness" might be excusable. It's the perverse incentives where companies with a captive audience that can't easily churn will be the ones that ship broken half-arsed sites and not care. One phenomena I am seeing more that makes me boil with fury…

> One phenomena I am seeing more that makes me boil with fury is infinite captchas in Firefox

This is driven by enhanced tracking prevention. If you turn that off for the respective site, then it goes away.

Re: Apple's Browser Engine Ban Persists, Even Under the DMA

#118

Post by tricot »

seritools wrote: post #88
xnx wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you know of an example? I use a non-Chrome browser on Android and can't remember encountering this.

it's the "thin" browsers that are half-embedded in other apps, such as Google News. In the menu you can see "Running in Chrome" and "Open in "

This feature is called Android Custom Tabs and it is supported by most browsers on Android afaik. I use Firefox for this purpose, but it is possible that certain Google apps always use Chrome for this, not entirely sure.

Re: Apple's Browser Engine Ban Persists, Even Under the DMA

#119

Post by lozenge »

scarface_74 wrote: post #106

Two of the arguments just aren’t true. If you use another browser today even if it does use Apple’s engine, Apple’s not making search revenue from Google. The second point is that it came out in the Epic trial that 90% of App Store revenue comes from games and in app purchasing. Those apps are not going to the web. Third, if the only thing stopping great web apps is Apple, why aren’t their popular web apps for Androi…

Yes but there's no reason to use another browser today, because the browsers aren't able to add differentiating features.

I don't think you are correct to assume games can't go to the web. Any feature they need from native APIs can be added to the web. Full screen, gyro, vibration, multi touch, payment APIs, notifications, WASM and GPU support are already on the web!

Re: Apple's Browser Engine Ban Persists, Even Under the DMA

#120

Post by lillecarl »

sealeck wrote: post #94
fabian2k wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not saying this is against the law, but it is clear that Apple only moves exactly as far as the EU forces it to, not a bit more. And within the limits the law allows, they're doing everything they can to make it tedious and difficult to actually get alternative apps stores or browser engines on their OS.

> it is clear that Apple only moves exactly as far as the EU forces it to I don't think this is a secret - Apple publicly opposes these kinds of laws. > And within the limits the law allows, they're doing everything they can to make it tedious and difficult to actually get alternative apps stores or browser engines on their OS. Sure, it's unclear what the EU can do to oppose this though. If they push too far they ris…

The EU does not risk invoking the "wrath" of the "much more powerful" US government by telling Apple to stop abusing it's customers, market and developers.

You have progressive states passing similar legislation as the EU within the US so I bet they'll be getting the firm hand first if anything.

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