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The Hollow Men of Hims

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Re: The Hollow Men of Hims

#111

Post by maxerickson »

nikkwong wrote: post #105
jeremy151 wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If you want safe and really high quality medical care you should absolutely have a personal physician you have a personal relationship with, who understands your lifestyle, your risk factors for side effects, and your medical needs deeply. How many Americans have that? Maybe a few dozen? A bit of a tangent: I have this here in the US, through a model called Direct Primary Care. I pay $50/mo for a single provider, u…

How could this possibly work out for her financially? To make 120k a year, she would have to be doing this with.. 200 patients; and I think the average GP makes a bit more than that in the US. That doesn't like a good bargain on her end.

Not paying someone to chase insurance saves something anyway.

I'm at about 1 hour per year with my GP (I guess they can be spending additional time on notes or whatever, but I don't think it's much).

Re: The Hollow Men of Hims

#112

Post by Spivak »

zdragnar wrote: post #103
parpfish wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There’s a very vocal, puritanical anti-semaglutide crowd that thinks using the drug is a way of subverting the moral order. “You have poor willpower, you’re SUPPOSED to be fat as a punishment!” They don’t care that it helps people stick to their healthy diets and get better. They need these people to bear the stigma of the gluttony.

This is not a charitable take of the critics. If you go on a fad diet, lose weight, then gain it back when you stop, well, you haven't really lost anything other than time. If you go on semaglutide, lose weight, then gain it all back when you stop, you're out thousands of dollars, I'm out money when my insurance premium goes up to support the new expensive drugs, and you might have permanent health complications (rar…

> I'm out money when my insurance premium goes up to support the new expensive drugs

It's a good thing then that insurance won't pay for it and these services don't even bill insurance.

It's also not $12k a year for the generic, it's around $1200 a year. The drug isn't that expensive to make, the brand is just jacking up the price.

Re: The Hollow Men of Hims

#113

Post by nradov »

jeremy151 wrote: post #52
jackdeansmith wrote: post #7

>The real tragedy is not that Hims exists, but that it works so perfectly. Every day, thousands of people choose their compounded weight-loss drugs over FDA-approved alternatives, their combination ED pills over established single-ingredient treatments, their algorithmic consultations over actual medical care. They make these choices not because the products are better, but because the entire experience has been opti…

> If you want safe and really high quality medical care you should absolutely have a personal physician you have a personal relationship with, who understands your lifestyle, your risk factors for side effects, and your medical needs deeply. How many Americans have that? Maybe a few dozen? A bit of a tangent: I have this here in the US, through a model called Direct Primary Care. I pay $50/mo for a single provider, u…

Studies have shown that patient satisfaction scores are highly correlated with whether the doctor writes a prescription. When patients leave with a prescription then they feel like they got their money's worth, regardless of whether they really need it.

Re: The Hollow Men of Hims

#114

Post by onlyrealcuzzo »

genocidicbunny wrote: post #85
lmm wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I pay $50/mo for a single provider, unlimited visits / communication, and highly discounted labs. She makes house calls on occasion. This doctor is working solely in my interest, and has little concern of insurance, except to help me navigate that system should I need a specialist, prior authorization, etc. Someone's presumably paying her more than $50/hr, which will burn through your monthly fees pretty quickly. W…

It works the same way that health insurance works -- most people don't need all that much care, and when time-consuming care is needed, it is often pushed to the specialists rather than the generalist. Your $50/mo payment might not seem like much, but if all you're doing is a bi-monthly checkin with them over the phone, you're really paying more like $100/visit for a 15-30 minute visit. A lot of these 'concierge medi…

Doctors make $20k a month or more.

That's 420+ patients at $50/m.

Doesn't seem feasible to know them all personally and deeply.

Other revenue would be needed.

Re: The Hollow Men of Hims

#115

Post by const_cast »

zdragnar wrote: post #103
parpfish wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There’s a very vocal, puritanical anti-semaglutide crowd that thinks using the drug is a way of subverting the moral order. “You have poor willpower, you’re SUPPOSED to be fat as a punishment!” They don’t care that it helps people stick to their healthy diets and get better. They need these people to bear the stigma of the gluttony.

This is not a charitable take of the critics. If you go on a fad diet, lose weight, then gain it back when you stop, well, you haven't really lost anything other than time. If you go on semaglutide, lose weight, then gain it all back when you stop, you're out thousands of dollars, I'm out money when my insurance premium goes up to support the new expensive drugs, and you might have permanent health complications (rar…

Most obese people are going to be on lifetime drugs anyway, in the form of metformin, statins, insulin, you name it.

The "ooo scary medicine!" thing doesn't really work for people who are already sick and suffering. That ship has sailed.

Re: The Hollow Men of Hims

#116

Post by classichasclass »

nikkwong wrote: post #105
jeremy151 wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If you want safe and really high quality medical care you should absolutely have a personal physician you have a personal relationship with, who understands your lifestyle, your risk factors for side effects, and your medical needs deeply. How many Americans have that? Maybe a few dozen? A bit of a tangent: I have this here in the US, through a model called Direct Primary Care. I pay $50/mo for a single provider, u…

How could this possibly work out for her financially? To make 120k a year, she would have to be doing this with.. 200 patients; and I think the average GP makes a bit more than that in the US. That doesn't like a good bargain on her end.

200 patients is an extremely small panel size for the typical primary care provider in the United States. Many have several thousand.

Re: The Hollow Men of Hims

#117

Post by Spivak »

wonderwonder wrote: post #50
classichasclass wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Counterexample: what about antibiotics? There are negative externalities to their inappropriate use (yes, there are plenty of stories about the infections that were missed, but that has a lot of selection bias). There are countries that allow their use over the counter. Is that a good thing?

Yes. You can order a significant variety of antibiotics over the counter / web in the US. I have 2 Z-Paks, a bottle of Amoxicillin and a bottle of Doxycycline sitting in my medical drawer. You can order them legally via US based online pharmacies. If you are an adult you should have the freedom to treat yourself. Freedom does not absolve you of responsibility though. If I mess myself up I have no one to blame but mys…

Could you share some of those sites? I have chronic sinus infections and I'm so tired of having to go to the doctor to get the same antibiotic rx I've gotten 20 times before.

Re: The Hollow Men of Hims

#118

Post by pasquinelli »

nradov wrote: post #113
jeremy151 wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If you want safe and really high quality medical care you should absolutely have a personal physician you have a personal relationship with, who understands your lifestyle, your risk factors for side effects, and your medical needs deeply. How many Americans have that? Maybe a few dozen? A bit of a tangent: I have this here in the US, through a model called Direct Primary Care. I pay $50/mo for a single provider, u…

Studies have shown that patient satisfaction scores are highly correlated with whether the doctor writes a prescription. When patients leave with a prescription then they feel like they got their money's worth, regardless of whether they really need it.

a lot of actual conditions are actually treated with actual perscription drugs.

Re: The Hollow Men of Hims

#119

Post by sandspar »

Interesting how a few rare commenters strongly agree with this article and yet most comments here don't.

Perhaps HN is full of people with high digital literacy, relatively high reasoning ability etc. People like this can benefit from the service.

The article's core point is that Hims uses unethical marketing. Maybe the HN crowd is privileged: people here may be able to resist marketing.

The article's unstated point is that many people who use Hims would be better off not using it.

HN people tend to be wealthy tech workers. I'm not sure how many people here know about the brutal conditions outside their cozy tech bubble.

There are tens of millions of Americans with low cognitive ability, low digital literacy, high susceptibility to advertising, high stress, poor health, and demeaning jobs - all at the same time.

Many of these unfortunate people spend pretty much their whole lives bouncing around from scam to scam. At age 15 they get exploited by an older boyfriend. At age 26 they get exploited by a for-profit college.

Then at age 45 they get exploited by unethical pharma companies. Like Hims.

The healthcare industry spends a lot of time dealing with this population. Many of these people tend to be "frequent flyers" of government-run programs. People who work in hospitals understand these unfortunate people intimately. When those hospital workers make laws, they spend a lot of time thinking about how to protect these people. Then Hims come along and targets them specifically.

The article's point is that Hims exploits vulnerable people. And I agree.

Re: The Hollow Men of Hims

#120

Post by lotsofpulp »

zdragnar wrote: post #103
parpfish wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There’s a very vocal, puritanical anti-semaglutide crowd that thinks using the drug is a way of subverting the moral order. “You have poor willpower, you’re SUPPOSED to be fat as a punishment!” They don’t care that it helps people stick to their healthy diets and get better. They need these people to bear the stigma of the gluttony.

This is not a charitable take of the critics. If you go on a fad diet, lose weight, then gain it back when you stop, well, you haven't really lost anything other than time. If you go on semaglutide, lose weight, then gain it all back when you stop, you're out thousands of dollars, I'm out money when my insurance premium goes up to support the new expensive drugs, and you might have permanent health complications (rar…

> and you might have permanent health complications (rare though they might be).

Does obesity have permanent health complications and cost you extra in premiums?

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