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Berkshire Hathaway Now Pays 5% of All Corporate Income Taxes in America

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Re: Berkshire Hathaway Now Pays 5% of All Corporate Income Taxes in America

#111

Post by monero-xmr »

Sparkle-san wrote: post #95
Enginerrrd wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It seems strange to me that someone would want to punish a corporation for maintaining a larger reserve with which to handle economic downturns and the like, allowing them to continue to pay and employ those same employees instead of just letting them go. "Hording cash" sounds like NOT spending on expenses and offsetting profits, and therefore likely involves that corporation being taxed. In addition it sounds a lot…

Using that money to retain staff during a downturn instead of doing layoffs sounds great and would make sense as something to incentivize through the tax code. There's definitely a point where a company can have an unreasonable amount of cash on hand.

You just can’t win this argument.

“Company ABC made a billion last quarter and still had layoffs. Why are they so stupid? Can’t they save for a rainy day?”

“Company XYZ made a billion for the last 12 quarters. Why aren’t they giving it to their employees, or paying a wealth tax?”

Re: Berkshire Hathaway Now Pays 5% of All Corporate Income Taxes in America

#112

Post by monero-xmr »

PaulDavisThe1st wrote: post #79
monero-xmr wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The correct corporate tax rate is zero, or the correct income tax rate is zero. Double taxation on employees of corporations is ludicrous and warping. IMO corporate tax should be zero, and we tax individual people instead.

For the hundredth time, it is not double taxation. Money is taxed (generally) whenever it moves between parties. You paid tax on your income; you give (some of) it to someone else for goods or services - they pay taxes on it again. That's not double taxation, that's how tax works. Money flows to the corporation. They pay some to employees, who pay tax on their income. They (might) pay some to shareholders, who (might…

Why would I want taxes to paid every single time it moves from entity A to entity B? All you do is decrease economic activity, in the aggregate, in a negative compounding loop

Re: Berkshire Hathaway Now Pays 5% of All Corporate Income Taxes in America

#113

Post by immibis »

ummmzokbro wrote: post #103
PaulDavisThe1st wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For the hundredth time, it is not double taxation. Money is taxed (generally) whenever it moves between parties. You paid tax on your income; you give (some of) it to someone else for goods or services - they pay taxes on it again. That's not double taxation, that's how tax works. Money flows to the corporation. They pay some to employees, who pay tax on their income. They (might) pay some to shareholders, who (might…

It very much is double taxation and to state otherwise seems disingenuous. Taxing corporate profits is layering an additional (hefty) tax on its beneficiaries - people. Search 'double taxation' and you will see this term is generally accepted by financial professionals in many jurisdictions to describe the above scenario where a corporation makes a profit, is taxed at the corporate level and then additional taxes mus…

Actually it's a quadruple tax system since when you give your income to a plumber the plumber pays tax and when the plumber gives the income to his landlord the landlord pays tax.

Re: Berkshire Hathaway Now Pays 5% of All Corporate Income Taxes in America

#114

Post by 2Gkashmiri »

Let me explain:

Direct taxes and indirect taxes.

Indirect taxes.

These are paid by customers on purchase of goods or services. Vat and gst or hst are examples.

For a service provider, or a seller, there is no way to avoid this tax. If you sell something, you HAVE TO COLLECT THIS TAX AND REMIT TO GOVERNMENT.

Direct taxes.

This is whats "income tax".

You sell something, you buy goods to sell, you earn a markup, you subtract expenses and your PBT (profit before tax) is subject to 15-25-30% income tax and you are left with Pat (profit after tax).

Now, usually this Pat is exempt from subsequent tax because the owner gets this money but many jurisdictions now charge taxes on this "income" as well for individuals or other owners

There are creative accounting ways to reduce this PBT but you cant just show $X on your financials and then say I dont owe any income tax..

Income tax is usually calculated on PBT

Re: Berkshire Hathaway Now Pays 5% of All Corporate Income Taxes in America

#115

Post by 2Gkashmiri »

immibis wrote: post #113
ummmzokbro wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It very much is double taxation and to state otherwise seems disingenuous. Taxing corporate profits is layering an additional (hefty) tax on its beneficiaries - people. Search 'double taxation' and you will see this term is generally accepted by financial professionals in many jurisdictions to describe the above scenario where a corporation makes a profit, is taxed at the corporate level and then additional taxes mus…

Actually it's a quadruple tax system since when you give your income to a plumber the plumber pays tax and when the plumber gives the income to his landlord the landlord pays tax.

Yes because there are multiple people.

You.

Plumbler.

Landlord.

Each person is a different person and pays income tax on "their income"

Re: Berkshire Hathaway Now Pays 5% of All Corporate Income Taxes in America

#117

Post by [deleted] »

paulcole wrote: post #41
mupuff1234 wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So is using cheat codes in a game also not cheating? It's part of the game after all.

Yes, that’s correct. But if I’m playing a multi-player game, there can be rules of that game that ban the use of cheat codes. Breaking those rules would be cheating.

[deleted]

Re: Berkshire Hathaway Now Pays 5% of All Corporate Income Taxes in America

#118

Post by immibis »

2Gkashmiri wrote: post #115
immibis wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Actually it's a quadruple tax system since when you give your income to a plumber the plumber pays tax and when the plumber gives the income to his landlord the landlord pays tax.

Yes because there are multiple people. You. Plumbler. Landlord. Each person is a different person and pays income tax on "their income"

Are corporations people?

Re: Berkshire Hathaway Now Pays 5% of All Corporate Income Taxes in America

#119

Post by consumer451 »

monero-xmr wrote: post #72
atbpaca wrote: post #18

This number is actually a shame in the sense that it shows how little taxes are paid by other big companies.

The correct corporate tax rate is zero, or the correct income tax rate is zero. Double taxation on employees of corporations is ludicrous and warping. IMO corporate tax should be zero, and we tax individual people instead.

West Germany used huge (60%) corporate tax rates in the near post-war period to force companies to invest into their R&D and CAPEX, which helped Germany rebuild their industrial base much faster than other countries.

If the goal of the USA is to force companies to re-shore, wouldn't this be a better way [0] to proceed than inflating the costs of many goods for the consumer? Large corporations appear to have record cash on hand in recent decades, where as consumers hold record debt.

[0] By better, I mean more much likely to achieve the stated goal.

Re: Berkshire Hathaway Now Pays 5% of All Corporate Income Taxes in America

#120

Post by tacticalturtle »

Sparkle-san wrote: post #80
monero-xmr wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The correct corporate tax rate is zero, or the correct income tax rate is zero. Double taxation on employees of corporations is ludicrous and warping. IMO corporate tax should be zero, and we tax individual people instead.

I think this can make sense theoretically and what about cases where companies just horde wealth like Apple or spend it on stock buybacks (like Apple)? I'd want to see some sort of impetus for them to either reinvest or pass it along to their employees.

> I think this can make sense theoretically and what about cases where companies just horde wealth like Apple or spend it on stock buybacks (like Apple)?

Eventually that money is going to come back though - no shareholder wants a company to sit on a massive cash pile for decades.

If a company can’t find a use for the money, then investors will want that cash returned so that they can find a use for it elsewhere.

Apple itself set a goal in 2018 to be net cash neutral:

https://www.morningstar.com/markets/what-apples-cash-problem...

And when the money comes back to investors, that’s when taxes can be paid and everyone benefits.

Stock buybacks also result in capital gains taxes eventually - it just takes a long time because investors get to choose when to take the gain. If we wanted to fix that, we could just make stock buybacks illegal again like they were before 1982.

Then investors would get dividends again, which results in immediate revenue for the federal government.

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