The Right to Repair Is Law in Washington State • Hacker News Board

Re: The Right to Repair Is Law in Washington State

#111

Post by RajT88 » Wed, Jun 04, 2025, 8:57 PM UTC

eddieroger wrote: post #101

RajT88 wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've often wondered how much cross-talk there is between the two companies, given that the Nintendo America HQ is smack in the middle of the sprawling Microsoft campus. There's got to be some, I should think.

I am sure there is some within the bounds of the law, but I don't think this time around that would have happened much. What's good for one is good for all, and they all know that, so why risk collusion by even thinking about it, when all they need to do is represent their own interests and be done.

I wasn't getting at any illegal sort of collusion.

More like, connections which form because people meet each other over time. Or jump back and forth between companies, because their office location doesn't change much. That would lead to a flow of ideas between the two companies in a totally organic and not problematic kind of way. People know each other and talk shop occasionally while at the gym, or yoga or the neighborhood BBQ or whatever.

Re: The Right to Repair Is Law in Washington State

#112

Post by 0xbadcafebee » Wed, Jun 04, 2025, 9:10 PM UTC

octoberfranklin wrote: post #13

0xbadcafebee wrote: post #5

> a soldier struggling with a broken generator Are there generators you can't fix right now? I assumed most of them are pretty basic designs, an ICE with either an inverter or non-inverter generator. You can look up how to tear them down and repair them step by step on YouTube (including commercial units)

Large generators are fuel-injected, which requires a microcontroller with software. In the 1990s that software was write-once, non-upgradeable, and bug-free because it was trivial. But it hasn't been that way for a long time. "Fuel injection requires software" turned into an exploit vector for feature creep.

Yeah but you can just get a Megasquirt DIY kit and make your own ECU for most EFI engines (from 1 to 16 cylinders). To the other person's comment about the generator circuitry: most generators are pretty simple mechanically, you can make a new circuit to control the output.

I'm guessing the rationale of the law is to prevent needing a repair company to exist & reinvent the electrical components of every single product in existence.

Re: The Right to Repair Is Law in Washington State

#113

Post by bluGill » Wed, Jun 04, 2025, 9:23 PM UTC

vel0city wrote: post #68

abeppu wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

IDK about "at cost" but shouldn't _some_ price regulation of spare parts be included? With no limits, any manufacturer might say "The price for any spare part is the cost of the original item + a significant additional fee, because our process will be to pull a complete new unit from the warehouse, and have someone disassemble it and send you the one part."

I remember looking at prices for OEM parts for my motorcycle and marveling at how I could effectively build my own, but parts alone before shipping would cost me like $80k for a bike that was The cost for the part at the factory for 1,000+ units is radically different than the part for your one off garage build.

The cost of a single part is a lot higher than the cost of a pallot of them to a factory on some day 6 months from now.

Re: The Right to Repair Is Law in Washington State

#114

Post by dml2135 » Wed, Jun 04, 2025, 9:25 PM UTC

socalgal2 wrote: post #109

dml2135 wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a result of there being a general consensus that video game consoles are "a thing" that we are all used to, and that the loosely-coupled movements of right-to-repair and antitrust are not seeking to disrupt the video game industry for fear of distracting from their larger goals. It's an uneasy balance and it will be interesting to see where it goes once the dust settles on the current antitrust actions agains…

> can't really think of a good reason why the iPhone should be a generalized computing device that is pryed open from Apple's clutches, while Nintendo, for example, can still run their own app store and would not be required to allow things like sideloading and root access while a smartphone manufacturer would. What makes one a computer, and the other an appliance? Because the only thing people do on a Nintendo Switc…

> Because the only thing people do on a Nintendo Switch is game.

Well, this becomes a bit of a circular argument, but certainly part of the reason for that is the only thing one can do on a Nintendo Switch is game, due to its restrictive software.

And, strictly speaking, this statement is false. The only thing most people do on a Nintendo Switch is play games, but there is a subset of people that hack their switches and install things like Android TV. The thing is basically just an Nvidea Shield, hardware-wise. Not being able to do everything an Nvidea Shield can do is a software restriction.

I do see your point re: Apple's ambitions being far vaster than Nintendo's. But in terms of controlling their own markets, they are still seeking similar levels of control.

Re: The Right to Repair Is Law in Washington State

#115

Post by bluGill » Wed, Jun 04, 2025, 9:28 PM UTC

amanaplanacanal wrote: post #92

MichaelZuo wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Manufacturers can already legitimately say the additional price for 1 spare part for a $5 part is actually $250,000 dollars because the last mould has worn out…? Typically nobody would actually go through with placing any orders beyond that point, unless they’re the pentagon.

They might want to talk to their legal departments before claiming such a thing if it isn't actually true. Lawsuits involve discovery.

250k for a single mold if they don't have drawings of the final size of the last is reasonable - high but reasonable. Building molds is still a lot of trial and error that CAD cannot help with. Plus time for one off on an assemble line is not cheap since it is often half an hour of nobody in the factory working except the two people switching out the mold. once you have a mold you can make thousands and so the cost ammortizes out if you need that many.

my company has looked into spending billions for a chip fad of obsolete processes just to get some no longer in prodction parts. So far not worth it.

Re: The Right to Repair Is Law in Washington State

#116

Post by bluGill » Wed, Jun 04, 2025, 9:33 PM UTC

alnwlsn wrote: post #95

FuriouslyAdrift wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Conformal coating? That used to be the norm way back in the day for all kinds of electronics. Kind of a dick move, now, unless there is an environmental reason.

Normal on anything that has to work outside. Also, hardly an impediment to repair. I've done it myself on a car ECU: open case, scrape off conformal coating, desolder blown IGBT, replace with IGBT salvaged from junkyard unit, spray on new conformal coating, done - been working like that now for 5 years. Parts pairing is also a/the reason you can't just swap in the junkyard unit even though it came from a car with the…

That pairing is for theft reasons - chop shops will steal a car, take the parts off and sell them. However the expensive computers are paired and so they won't work when sold this way thus making the value of a car to a shop shop much less and so helping prevent that theft mode.

Though I think there should be a process to get the parts paired after verifying the car isn't stolen. I'm not sure what that would be though.

Re: The Right to Repair Is Law in Washington State

#117

Post by guywithahat » Wed, Jun 04, 2025, 9:36 PM UTC

walterbell wrote: post #3

https://www.ifixit.com/News/110039/double-trouble-for-repair... Come January 1, 2026, manufacturers must also stop using parts pairing to block repairs for these devices. That means no more pop-ups that say “unknown part” when you swap in a working screen. No more downgrading your camera or fingerprint sensor just because you repaired your own phone. SB 5680 goes even further for wheelchair users. It covers power whe…

The phone part sounds great, the wheel chair portion sounds like it will just make wheel chairs more expensive. Wheelchairs are generally already highly repairable, and this will just reduce the options to consumers

Re: The Right to Repair Is Law in Washington State

#118

Post by ronsor » Wed, Jun 04, 2025, 9:41 PM UTC

bfdm wrote: post #56

balls187 wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Requiring proprietary dongles/software to clear fault codes are not uncommon, but I'm surprised there hasn't been enough interest for there to be a 3rd party tool. Like McDonald's Shake Machines had a 3rd party tool to help diagnose issues.

There is interest, but thanks to DMCA 1201 they put a thin veneer of encryption on it and suddenly it's a felony to make/use that third party tool.

We could, of course, repeal DMCA section 1201, but no one in government wants to do that.

Re: The Right to Repair Is Law in Washington State

#119

Post by [deleted] » Wed, Jun 04, 2025, 9:41 PM UTC

MichaelZuo wrote: post #98

amanaplanacanal wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They might want to talk to their legal departments before claiming such a thing if it isn't actually true. Lawsuits involve discovery.

How does this relate to my comment or any other comment in the chain? I don’t think anyone suggested manufacturers could get away with lying all the time.

[deleted]

Re: The Right to Repair Is Law in Washington State

#120

Post by dcow » Wed, Jun 04, 2025, 9:42 PM UTC

MichaelZuo wrote: post #36

abeppu wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

IDK about "at cost" but shouldn't _some_ price regulation of spare parts be included? With no limits, any manufacturer might say "The price for any spare part is the cost of the original item + a significant additional fee, because our process will be to pull a complete new unit from the warehouse, and have someone disassemble it and send you the one part."

Manufacturers can already legitimately say the additional price for 1 spare part for a $5 part is actually $250,000 dollars because the last mould has worn out…? Typically nobody would actually go through with placing any orders beyond that point, unless they’re the pentagon.

Tough luck then. The point of the law is to make it easier for people to repair the things they rightfully own. Not kill business by requiring all companies to indefinitely manufacture parts for anything they’ve ever sold.