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Google is using AI to censor independent websites like mine

travellemming.com

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Re: Google is using AI to censor independent websites like mine

#111

Post by fsflover »

seaourfreed wrote: post #21

Replacing Google with open source. Imaging this: 1) An open-source competitor to Google Search exists 2) It exists in "Front-end nodes". This is the website user interface. Search query entered here. It then searches cached indexes. 3) Searches fall in two patterns. a) Frequent searches (top 20m search query phrases), b) long-tail rare (beyond top 20m) 4) Here is how "Frequent Searches" results are built. * They are…

> Imaging this: 1) An open-source competitor to Google Search exists 2) It exists in "Front-end nodes".

https://yacy.net

Re: Google is using AI to censor independent websites like mine

#112

Post by 0x000xca0xfe »

kayo_20211030 wrote: post #78

I do sympathize with OP's situation, but there's a dissonance also. As a site owner they seemed to have been happy to play the SEO game under the old rules, winning a little bit, but unhappy to play the SEO game under the new rules, losing a little bit. Depressingly, it's Google's ball, so it Google's rules. At the end of the post, OP's suggests some remedies for web users, but they seem either impractical or ineffec…

> Our creators actually visit the places we write about.

> Our creators take and publish thousands of original photos.

Not defending the site, but I guess tons of human created content will be lost? Have fun with LLM hallucinated travel guides and AI generated travel photos.

At least we'll soon get tour guides for our next moon vacation!

Re: Google is using AI to censor independent websites like mine

#113

Post by benterix »

blinding-streak wrote: post #25

> As one Google executive recently explained: “Organizing information is clearly a trillion-dollar opportunity, but a trillion dollars is not cool anymore. What’s cool is a quadrillion dollars.” This uncited, anonymous quote sounds very made up. Cursory search couldn't find anything like this. Regardless, while the article makes some good points, it is also dripping with entitlement. Google gave you incredible moneti…

> Google gave you incredible monetizable traffic for two+ decades.

You forgot to add "for free" /s

(I mean, really? Google made billions on being a better browser than Yahoo!, AltaVista, AOL Search and whatever was there. They build up people's trust only to abuse it to the limits in practically every area they could get away with.)

Re: Google is using AI to censor independent websites like mine

#114

Post by slowmovintarget »

blinding-streak wrote: post #92
SecretDreams wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mostly meant it in the context of why they are so behind in AI... Sorry for the nuance.

Ahh, acknowledged. However, please understand, they also have a massive AI division. It was led for years by John G. He just got ousted from the position. They're just not very good at AI in their own walled garden. It's not for a lack of trying.

Ironically, they're not "good" at it because they're fighting their own privacy and security features in IOS and MacOS. Siri can't do everything because there isn't a full pants-down mode for OS features.

"Siri, adjust my schedule to work in a 30 minute walk this afternoon."

"Siri, find a photo of a Koala, turn it into a cartoon, and make a logo for my Github project."

Coordinated actions are what we're looking for, but they blow through all of the app security walls. Even if Apple's software could act like this, I don't think I'd use it. If it could do these things, it could also do things like broadcast my private files to everyone in my contact list... etc.

We have to get dramatically more sophisticated about security with agents than we are now.

Re: Google is using AI to censor independent websites like mine

#115

Post by tndibona »

sumtechguy wrote: post #80
tndibona wrote: post #51

My personal opinion. Google sees the writing on the wall with the rise of perplexity. People want trustable summaries of long winding content to make decisions. It’s business of sending people to the relevant content and serving ads has to change to compete. It is simply redefining how it serves up information. The fact that small information servers like us get wiped out is the unfortunate consequence. I’m not sayin…

Basically if you serve information or content. AI or even just some smart coding google can do that too. If you do something with that information Google has not been doing so good at that. Microsoft in the early 2000s did that very well. They would let you have the data but would gobble up any company that could transform data and make it their own. But data without applications is useless. Applications without data…

I see your point, data is no good without actions and vice versa. Initially, I thought google couldn't possibly compete with perplexity because they are building a company from the ground up sans the surveillance ad-network.

If you skim the article this thread is about, It seems google is basically headed to create a monopoly on the answers being dished out to search queries. I.e, if they know the answer they'll generate & serve it up, but if they know the product that fulfills your answer, they will serve that up too. They will probably still continue to monitor you across the web to run their predictions for relevant ads. It will just be formatted and blended with the answer being doled out.

I think we are in the middle of this transformation.

Re: Google is using AI to censor independent websites like mine

#116

Post by sampullman »

arrowsmith wrote: post #26
sampullman wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I haven't been able to get much practical travel advice from AI yet, any tips? For stuff like hiking routes, permitting, local cuisine, etc. I don't think it can replace a good blog from an experienced person at this point.

It's a trade-off. AI gives you speed but lower quality. Blog posts are higher quality but take longer to find/curate. For hiking routes, I ask AI for a list of suggested hiking routes in [area] based on my criteria (e.g. dog friendly, accessible by public transport, whatever) Then I google the specific suggested routes to fact-check the AI and get more detailed/reliable info.

That's true. I'm not anti AI or anything, I use it for plenty of things where search falls short or has decayed due to SEO spam

I guess it comes down to knowing where to find valuable information. If you already have known quality sources, AI is currently inferior.

Where I live I'm lucky to have tons of trails that have been meticulously mapped out and the made available (with images, directions, gear recommendations, etc.) on various blogs. I don't see AI being able to totally replace that in its current state, especially due to the semi-dynamic nature of the data.

Re: Google is using AI to censor independent websites like mine

#117

Post by tndibona »

FinnLobsien wrote: post #66
tndibona wrote: post #51

My personal opinion. Google sees the writing on the wall with the rise of perplexity. People want trustable summaries of long winding content to make decisions. It’s business of sending people to the relevant content and serving ads has to change to compete. It is simply redefining how it serves up information. The fact that small information servers like us get wiped out is the unfortunate consequence. I’m not sayin…

> I’m not saying we all have to innovate or perish but how did our rules based order allow Google to get to this point. Well millions of people learned how to game the Google Search algorithm and created long-winded, hollow content that would rank on the first page to the point that people no longer trusted Google's results. Then the perfect technology to solve that exact problem came along—one that let Google cease…

Yes, this is true that all the click bait and unoriginal content deserves to perish. But, what about the carve outs for people putting money on original content. Like perhaps a local news gazette with paid journalists. They need google to be found, they also can't afford to get scraped and be AI-regurgitated up.

Let's take a practical example, if you searched for let's say "Whats the latest research on intermittent fasting and its effect on weight loss?". Google could easily AI-summarise a DOAC podcast on this topic and serve it up. How is this fair to Steven Bartlett who put the money and time on an interview podcast? He is deprived of a potential subscriber, lost out potential ad revenue, cant recover his cost. The youtube network he depends on is owned by Google. Seems a bit unfair to genuine people.

Re: Google is using AI to censor independent websites like mine

#118

Post by lesuorac »

masklinn wrote: post #100
FirmwareBurner wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>That only works if: 1. they see it coming Zuckerberg saw them coming though. That's why he owns a social media empire now, and wants to either own or destroy Tiktok as well. Musk saw it coming with Twatter, hell, even Bezos saw it coming, that why Amazon bought Twitch. Google leadership just doesn't understand social media, otherwise they would have bought a rising platform instead of building one from scratch that…

> Zuckerberg saw them coming though [...] even Bezos saw it coming, that why Amazon bought Twitch. Which pertains to my reply... how? > Musk saw it coming with Twatter Musk saw nothing coming. He bought twitter in 2022 after getting baited into making a binding offer. Twitter was a household name at least a decade before that: news networks had direct twitter interactions and mentions at least as far back as the 2012…

> > Musk saw it coming with Twatter

> And although it's been turned private and delisted, it's estimated to be worth just a fraction of what he paid for it.

I'd just stick with "he tried to back out of it and had to be sued to buy it" as evidence that musk didn't forsee anything. It is a bit (darkly) amusing that the document required him to buy the company buy not pay the severance listed in it when firing people.

Although if Grok was a standalone company I think it's hard to argue it'd valued less than 44 billion so Musk really lucked into a great deal. He also really lucked into Biden not stepping down earlier so the Democrats would run an actual competitive primary.

Re: Google is using AI to censor independent websites like mine

#119

Post by sampullman »

thedevilslawyer wrote: post #19
sampullman wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I haven't been able to get much practical travel advice from AI yet, any tips? For stuff like hiking routes, permitting, local cuisine, etc. I don't think it can replace a good blog from an experienced person at this point.

I'd like to engage. Can you give a specific example? We can make an honest attempt to see what the old vs AI options for it looks like. Both of us will walk away a bit more informed, and share here with others as well.

What do you mean? I use AI plenty and am aware of the capabilities.

AI will give good surface level advice and sometimes point to decent sources. If I'm looking for e.g. a good hike in a specific area near me, I know the blogs that will have directions, pics, and GPX data for all the routes. These are found via word of mouth, search, and local forums.

Re: Google is using AI to censor independent websites like mine

#120

Post by lesuorac »

ipaddr wrote: post #61
gorjusborg wrote: post #39

I can't get past the sloppy and inflammatory use of English here. This is not 'censorship'. It probably isn't banning, nor is it 'shadowbanning'. Google tunes its algorithms and lets the chips fall. Some win, some lose. While I understand how Google's dominance in search can have outsized effects on Internet commerce, the writer has near-zero credibility with me based on their writing. Honest people making honest sta…

It's a literal shadow ban and Google writes the new algorithms, talks about it internally and decides what type of sites it wants to down rank and replace with AI Answers. The algorithm isn't some mystery formula it is literally what Google decides. There is no someone wins someone loses. Google wants to provide the answers and is taking market share from smaller publisher today and larger publishers tomorrow.

It's not a shadow ban if people can read what you wrote.

Just like if I stab you it's not a mugging. Words have meaning.

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