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They used Xenon to climb Everest in days – is it the future of mountaineering?

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Re: They used Xenon to climb Everest in days – is it the future of mountaineering?

#111

Post by 542354234235 »

Etheryte wrote: post #7

Important to note that they didn't use xenon for the climb, only for the prepwork, which makes this outcome all the more remarkable. Still, I would feel uneasy if this were to become a trend, as incorrectly administering xenon can lead to death, as seen on Hamilton's Pharmacopeia[0]. > In an interview, Mr. Carns said that his expedition had been in touch with the ministry, and clarified with the department that it ha…

I think the larger risk is lowering the bar even further for who could climb Everest. Anything that makes climbing “easier” could put more people on the mountain that aren’t fit enough or trained enough to handle problems with the climb. In the death zone, any issue, mistake, or problem is potentially fatal. Since just moving up and down the summit puts people at the absolute limit of exertion, attempting to help someone having an issue could domino into multiple fatalities.

The book “Into Thin Air” by Jon Krakauer is an amazing firsthand account of the 1996 Everest disaster. The book does a great job helping you really understand how far your body is pushed in the death zone, and how you truly have nothing left to do anything other than get one foot in front of the other in a race against time. Just sitting down to “rest” was a likely death sentence and how people had to walk past because stopping to try and help would have likely meant sitting down next to them to die.

Re: They used Xenon to climb Everest in days – is it the future of mountaineering?

#112

Post by gadders »

A_D_E_P_T wrote: post #21

Boss Lowe wrote about doping with xenon gas more than a decade ago: https://www.science.org/content/blog-post/another-use-xenon Also, and quite interestingly, xenon isn't the only element that does this. Cobalt does something very similar: https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC6157393/ Athletic use is probably more common than people think. And I'd be absolutely shocked if Xe gas weren't already being used in race…

I always wondered if the allied forces were giving their elite troops EPO or similar when tracking the Taliban up and down mountains in Afghanistan. If they weren't, I think they should have been.

Re: They used Xenon to climb Everest in days – is it the future of mountaineering?

#113

Post by cenamus »

mdorazio wrote: post #66
A_D_E_P_T wrote: post #21

Boss Lowe wrote about doping with xenon gas more than a decade ago: https://www.science.org/content/blog-post/another-use-xenon Also, and quite interestingly, xenon isn't the only element that does this. Cobalt does something very similar: https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC6157393/ Athletic use is probably more common than people think. And I'd be absolutely shocked if Xe gas weren't already being used in race…

Military divers who need to be underwater for long periods are almost certainly using rebreathers, both for the longevity and for the lack of visible & audible bubbles.

Isn't that also mainly to avoid nitrogen toxicity?

Re: They used Xenon to climb Everest in days – is it the future of mountaineering?

#114

Post by 15155 »

lm28469 wrote: post #72
meindnoch wrote: post #12

Xenon is used by athletes to increase their endogenous erythropoietin production. As it's a noble gas, it leaves no trace in their body, so post-hoc detection of this doping method is impossible. But as a recreational climber, why bother with xenon? Just inject EPO.

> why bother with xenon? Just inject EPO. As a recreational anything I'd say avoid wrecking your body to make some arbitrary numbers nobody will ever care about go up (or down)

> As a recreational anything

Most recreational activities don't come with an existing risk of death: PEDs likely reduce this relative risk in many riskier physical endeavors.

Re: They used Xenon to climb Everest in days – is it the future of mountaineering?

#115

Post by 15155 »

cheeze wrote: post #104
jebarker wrote: post #89

Climbing Everest these days just seems to be the quintessential activity for people that have lost site of what really matters in life. It's where you end up if you never grow out of the idea that life is a competition you can win.

IMO this is a reductionist take that is often peddled around Reddit. "Anybody can climb Everest, it's not that difficult", etc. Personally? I think it's a pretty cool achievement and is _the_ mountain to climb for a reason. I'm with the other commenter here. Chase your passions.

> is _the_ mountain to climb for a reason.

Is this the case in mountaineering circles, or are K2 and Annapurna the peaks to be respected?

Re: They used Xenon to climb Everest in days – is it the future of mountaineering?

#116

Post by jebarker »

osigurdson wrote: post #100
jebarker wrote: post #89

Climbing Everest these days just seems to be the quintessential activity for people that have lost site of what really matters in life. It's where you end up if you never grow out of the idea that life is a competition you can win.

Some people like climbing mountains, including Everest. It makes sense to follow your interests in my opinion.

My phrasing was weird but I'm actually speaking from personal experience here. I haven't climbed Everest but I've pursued other activities to extreme limits, e.g. running 100 mile high mountain races. These activities are all fun and have intrinsic rewards, but a large number of people doing them (my prior self included) were really in it for the external recognition of having done it. Everest seems to be the epitomy of that. I'm sure there's lots of people quietly climbing Everest just because it's there, but there's certainly very many doing it because of the name Everest and because it's the highest.

Re: They used Xenon to climb Everest in days – is it the future of mountaineering?

#117

Post by jebarker »

cheeze wrote: post #104
jebarker wrote: post #89

Climbing Everest these days just seems to be the quintessential activity for people that have lost site of what really matters in life. It's where you end up if you never grow out of the idea that life is a competition you can win.

IMO this is a reductionist take that is often peddled around Reddit. "Anybody can climb Everest, it's not that difficult", etc. Personally? I think it's a pretty cool achievement and is _the_ mountain to climb for a reason. I'm with the other commenter here. Chase your passions.

I never said it's not difficult. Please see my response to the other commenter.

Re: They used Xenon to climb Everest in days – is it the future of mountaineering?

#118

Post by llm_nerd »

cheeze wrote: post #104
jebarker wrote: post #89

Climbing Everest these days just seems to be the quintessential activity for people that have lost site of what really matters in life. It's where you end up if you never grow out of the idea that life is a competition you can win.

IMO this is a reductionist take that is often peddled around Reddit. "Anybody can climb Everest, it's not that difficult", etc. Personally? I think it's a pretty cool achievement and is _the_ mountain to climb for a reason. I'm with the other commenter here. Chase your passions.

It's similar to how many people clutch their pearls about abandoned gear on Everest.

Many of the neighbouring countries -- including Nepal, India, Tibet, Bangladesh -- are effectively open-air garbage dumps, where rivers and fields and cities are just awash with discards and garbage. In environmentally critical places where it massively impedes with the life of millions.

In a relative sense I just do not care about some infinitesimal amount of discarded air canisters on a lifeless rock at 10,000 feet. It seems like misdirected envy when people suddenly super care about that. In an ideal world they would leave only footprints, but in the grand scheme of things it just does not matter. Cue another "OMG look at these air canisters some rich guys left at 15,000 feet!" articles.

It's a bit like how the anti-AI cadre have taken to suddenly being incredibly concerned about the energy usage of AI. Despite everything else, it's AI that's going to heat the planet. They never cared about data centre power usage when it was serving their big tiddy goth anime GIFs, but if it's AI suddenly they lament this outrage.

Re: They used Xenon to climb Everest in days – is it the future of mountaineering?

#119

Post by ty6853 »

wat10000 wrote: post #83
FirmwareBurner wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn't most business success about convincing people to buy expensive tulips while you (legally) walk away with the money and leave them holding the bags, then rinse and repeat? Seems like he'd be the right person for the job. And then you wonder why so many young people flirt with communism or want to see the capitalist system burn to the ground. What's the point of ethics and hard work if those who just lie their wa…

Most business is about providing value by delivering goods or services that people want and are willing to pay for. Visit your local shops, how many of them are convincing people to buy proverbial tulips and leaving their customers holding the bag? Look at the most valuable companies in the world; they all do or make stuff people happily pay for because they actually find value in it. Certainly there are people who s…

But there is a real magic that happens in the process there.

When two people make a deal, voluntarily, at least rationally (unless it is charity) both expect to be better off.

The magic of the businessman is to connive his way into getting the largest slice of the 'better off'. He generally can't legally make a deal without generating value, but if he can capture it to the point the customer is only one iota better off he is a good businessman and no one has been defrauded.

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