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Cloudflare CEO: Football piracy blocks will claim lives

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Re: Cloudflare CEO: Football piracy blocks will claim lives

#111

Post by briandear »

im3w1l wrote: post #86
vessenes wrote: post #39

I was unaware of this controversy so in brief: 1. La Liga (Spanish Football) finds pirates streaming their games objectionable 2. They notice that many of these streamers use Cloudflare for something, presumably CDN and load balancing. 3. They appear in court in Spain and get an ex-parte TRO blocking all Cloudflare IPs. (Ex parte TRO: restraining order granted without Cloudflare being summoned to court) 4. Based on t…

There is a new factor in the equation: Rising anti-american sentiments. This ties in with point 5 especially. Forcing Spanish websites off Cloudflare could seem like an additional benefit.

The “anti American sentiment” is overblown. Average person doesn’t care. I live in Spain and I’m not seeing much anti-American anything. Anti-Israel has reached hysterical levels on the other hand — at least in the media, though the average person really doesn’t care about that much either.

In my circles of high level Spanish/European motorcycle racing, we continue to have a very positive reception as Americans in the paddock. The (Spanish) TV announcers have been positive towards our riders, the teams and crew are positive and helpful. We have more people wanting to talk about Route 66 than trade policy. Most Spaniards I know tend to roll their eyes at their own government more than anything happening in the U.S. The only exceptions are hysterical US expats on Facebook groups acting like the sky is falling. But they do that reliably every time a Republican gets elected.

Anecdotes aren’t data of course, but vocal people online don’t represent broader thought.

Re: Cloudflare CEO: Football piracy blocks will claim lives

#112

Post by twixfel »

briandear wrote: post #82
moffkalast wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The EU should be sanctioning Spain the same way we're sanctioning Hungary for this sort of authoritarian behaviour. What's next, they're banning Google cause pirates use it to search for streams? I don't know how this doesn't count as a net neutrality violation.

[flagged]

Why put Hungary in scare quotes? It's right wing nationalist and undermining our (Europe's) defence against the ultrafascist Russian hordes invading from the East. It's not the same.

Re: Cloudflare CEO: Football piracy blocks will claim lives

#113

Post by omnee »

stackedinserter wrote: post #8

I never watched sports but my kids want to, so tried to buy them subscription to some sport broadcaster. Bundesliga, F1, NHL and FIFA world cup, that's all I (they) needed. It turned to total mess. Service A shows F1 but not NHL. Service B shows NHL but not all NHL, only games where my city team plays. Some show LaLiga but not Bundesliga. All cost $30/mo but still show ads. Periodically they show ads instead of the e…

I have done something similar too, as I wanted to watch a specific football game - Barcelona v Real Madrid - and it was available on a different streamer to the THREE that I already have. So I simply took the easier route.

Re: Cloudflare CEO: Football piracy blocks will claim lives

#114

Post by otterley »

dankebitte wrote: post #54
jsheard wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

CloudFlare is free/cheap, has (AFAIK) no KYC policy, and is generally unresponsive to abuse reports unless the courts get involved, so it's the default choice for nearly all piracy sites, phishing sites, DDoS providers, etc. The few which do get kicked out of CF generally have to resort to dubious Russian CDNs because none of the other mainstream CDNs will have them.

> dubious Russian CDNs Are there multiple? I thought DDoS-Guard [1] had a near-monopoly on CDN services for international piracy. [1] https://krebsonsecurity.com/2021/01/hamas-may-be-threat-to-8...

No, CloudFlare is implicated as well. If you watch videos from any of the major pirate TVoD sites and inspect the traffic, you can see they're frequently using CloudFlare as their global CDN with a Chinese origin site.

Re: Cloudflare CEO: Football piracy blocks will claim lives

#115

Post by jorvi »

mac-mc wrote: post #91
jorvi wrote: post #46

I see so many people in these threads always complain about Cloudflare or Google CAPTCHA loops.. but even when using Private Internet Access (one of the most abused VPNs), I rarely if ever got on a full-on loop. Maybe Google CAPTCHA made me solve 3 things instead of one. Cloudflare is always just a checkbox. And I have my Brave and Firefox profiles hardened. I'm not saying you aren't experiencing this, but I am curio…

It's because you have previous cookies/state in your browser that you got from non-VPN addresses, which adds to your trust score. Do it with a clean browser with AdBlock and many, many things block you. If you don't clear your state or keep its original origin VPN only, you're breaking a big point of using VPNs.

Brave uses Forgetful Browsing, nuking all stateful site data after a tab close. I have Firefox configured to do the same via the Cookie Autodelete extension.

Re: Cloudflare CEO: Football piracy blocks will claim lives

#116

Post by haiku2077 »

candiddevmike wrote: post #58
vessenes wrote: post #39

I was unaware of this controversy so in brief: 1. La Liga (Spanish Football) finds pirates streaming their games objectionable 2. They notice that many of these streamers use Cloudflare for something, presumably CDN and load balancing. 3. They appear in court in Spain and get an ex-parte TRO blocking all Cloudflare IPs. (Ex parte TRO: restraining order granted without Cloudflare being summoned to court) 4. Based on t…

Cloudflare becoming Too Big To Block. Sounds like it should become a utility.

This situation also applies to any hosting provider which doesn't give every website a separate IP address. (The newest versions of TLS encrypt domain names, so the ISP only sees the IP.)

Re: Cloudflare CEO: Football piracy blocks will claim lives

#117

Post by 13_9_7_7_5_18 »

briandear wrote: post #111
im3w1l wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is a new factor in the equation: Rising anti-american sentiments. This ties in with point 5 especially. Forcing Spanish websites off Cloudflare could seem like an additional benefit.

The “anti American sentiment” is overblown. Average person doesn’t care. I live in Spain and I’m not seeing much anti-American anything. Anti-Israel has reached hysterical levels on the other hand — at least in the media, though the average person really doesn’t care about that much either. In my circles of high level Spanish/European motorcycle racing, we continue to have a very positive reception as Americans in th…

[dead]

Re: Cloudflare CEO: Football piracy blocks will claim lives

#118

Post by haiku2077 »

AlotOfReading wrote: post #110
michaelt wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Cloudflare goes public in frustration, noting that they could just send take down requests for infringing content like every other rights holder in the world, Live sports piracy has the unusual property that you have to be able to get the block in place within the ~90 minutes of a football match, even at weekends and across time zones. Otherwise there’s no point. If the courts let Cloudflare slow roll this, at the…

How are streaming sites registering new domains and getting the site info out to the audience in that time frame? I suspect they're not and there's actually a period there's a window of weeks or longer for enforcement actions to be taken.

Preregister domain names, distribute then via chat apps like signal or whatsapp or telegram.

Re: Cloudflare CEO: Football piracy blocks will claim lives

#119

Post by foobarchu »

ethbr1 wrote: post #105
qoez wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

The fact that it's stupid doesn't make it untrue. Under-resourced public sector entities often reach for the easiest solutions: Facebook and Twitter. Consequently, those channels are a major portion of their disaster communication plans. If services don't want to assume the responsibilities of being critical utilities, then they shouldn't work so hard to establish monopolies.

In this case cloud flare is clearly willing to be the responsible party and has acknowledged that blocking them instead of requesting takedowns is the issue. Who are you chastising?

Re: Cloudflare CEO: Football piracy blocks will claim lives

#120

Post by m3drano »

vessenes wrote: post #39

I was unaware of this controversy so in brief: 1. La Liga (Spanish Football) finds pirates streaming their games objectionable 2. They notice that many of these streamers use Cloudflare for something, presumably CDN and load balancing. 3. They appear in court in Spain and get an ex-parte TRO blocking all Cloudflare IPs. (Ex parte TRO: restraining order granted without Cloudflare being summoned to court) 4. Based on t…

one extra thing to mention is he role of Telefonica here. they are both an ISP that needs to apply the blocks, but also its subsidiary "Telefonica Audiovisual", who holds rights for the football, is a plaintiff.

one of the claims were that this is somewhat a procedural fraud since the plaintiff (Telefonica Audiovisual) and the defendant (Telefonica Spain) is technically the same thing. the order was granted after the defendants admitted, and therefore there wasn't any hearing with CF.

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