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Julian Assange urges US to end Wikileaks 'witch-hunt'

bbc.co.uk

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Re: Julian Assange urges US to end Wikileaks 'witch-hunt'

#111

Post by [deleted] »

hnolable wrote: post #34
jusben1369 wrote: post #28

I know it's very contrarian to not be 100% pro Assange on this board but all I ever see are the pro Assange interpretation of the facts. Some things to consider: - "Sometime during Wilen's questioning the police announced to Ardin and Wilen that Assange was to be arrested and questioned about possible rape and molestation." This was the initial questioning by local authorities. So unless every police station in every…

Let me point out. There is at least _one_ conspiracy here. Either some combination of the US/UK/Sweden is conspiring to bring Assange to the US. OR. Ecuador is granting Assange's asylum not because in their best judgement they believed it was warranted but for some more nefarious, maybe political, reason like spiting Sweden or the UK. Or maybe there is no conspiracy and Ecuador is just as stupid as most HN commenters…

[deleted]

Re: Julian Assange urges US to end Wikileaks 'witch-hunt'

#112

Post by philwelch »

ForrestN wrote: post #107
philwelch wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Quoth the guidelines: "Off-topic: Most stories about politics, or crime...unless they're evidence of some interesting new phenomenon. ... If they'd cover it on TV news, it's probably off-topic." This is indeed off-topic.

The video is part of an ongoing story: the wide-ranging political and diplomatic implications of decentralized leaks that can't be kept from the public once they're out. This story is certainly evidence of an entirely new, technology-centric phenomenon that I personally find highly interesting.

Wikileaks is interesting. Julian Assange's personal affairs are not.

Re: Julian Assange urges US to end Wikileaks 'witch-hunt'

#113

Post by vidarh »

rmc wrote: post #94
vidarh wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Again: There are no charges . There is an arrest warrant to question him on suspicion. Charges would be the next step if they decide to proceed. The UK courts found that the Swedish prosecutors unilateral interpretation of the evidence as stated in the EAW would amount to rape under UK law. But this description has not been used to file charges with a Swedish court, and the woman in question have previously claimed t…

"Again: There are no charges." Yes and no. Yes has has not been charged, however the Swedish court system is different. In the High Court appeal to the extradition, the English judge ruled that "there can be no doubt that if what Mr Assange had done had been done in England and Wales, he would have been charged" (§153 of http://www.bailii.org/ew/cases/EWHC/Admin/2011/2849.html ). So he it is the opinion of the Englis…

The opinion of the English courts is based on representations of the Swedish prosecutor on the express basis that the extradition does not need to concern itself with what evidence there is to support those representations.

In other words, it says nothing about whether or not there is a sufficient basis for charging him in Sweden, nor about whether the proseutors office will actually feel confident enough to actually go through with charges if they get hold of him.

It only says that if the Swedish prosecutor does indeed have sufficient evidence to get a Swedish court to charge him based on claims supporting the same allegations she has made in the EAW, then it would also be a crime in England and Wales.

Which raises the question of why Marianne Ny has doggedly insisted on carrying out this case in a manner that has prevented it from moving forward, nor tried to get him charged in absentia, which the Swedish system most most certainly allows her to do.

Re: Julian Assange urges US to end Wikileaks 'witch-hunt'

#114

Post by vidarh »

philwelch wrote: post #101
vidarh wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "Sometime during Wilen's questioning the police announced to Ardin and Wilen that Assange was to be arrested and questioned about possible rape and molestation." This was the initial questioning by local authorities. So unless every police station in every part of Sweden had been told to get Assange no matter what at any opportunity it's unlikely this was some conspiracy. Perhaps the local police station over react…

> So indeed, if there is a conspiracy, the conspirators stepped in at this point, and the very fact a prosecutor stepped in like this is strange. It is not a common occurrence, and certainly not to have a prosecutor so publicly pretty much totally reversing the decision of another. The exact same type of about-face happened in the case of George Zimmerman's alleged murder of Trayvon Martin in Florida. In both cases,…

Except in this case it was senior prosecutor that dismissed the case initially, after having been in her own words extremely surprised at the unusual manner the police had treated the case in, including a number of irregularities in the interviewing (such as not recording them).

Yes, it is possible that it was "just" public scrutiny, but Occam's Razor is a guideline, not a law of nature - less likely things with more convoluted explanations happens all the time.

It also runs into the question of why this has not happened more regularly, given that Swedish media regularly gives copious attention to outcry over rape cases that don't get pursued.

Sweden has an amazingly high frequency of reported rape cases. It would seem odd if this prosecutor does not have a long string of rape cases with much more serious allegations to look at, rather than stepping in to take over another senior prosecutors case and spend massive amounts of resources on a case that she herself has been conducting in a manner that virtually guarantees that she on her own accord will not be able to move the case forward anytime soon.

If we do accept that it was more public scrutiny that triggered this, how do we explain why she doggedly insists on not questioning Assange, while clinging to the outright lie that she can't question him abroad (as pointed out over and over again: Swedish authorities do this all the time)?

Re: Julian Assange urges US to end Wikileaks 'witch-hunt'

#115

Post by vidarh »

rmc wrote: post #95
vidarh wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is pretty much irrelevant. They have two alternatives: - They can interview him where he is now, and move things forward at least a little bit. - They can wait - possibly forever - to interview him, and not get justice for anyone. What changes if they interview him now? They claim there are legal issues with it, but this would not be the first time someone had been questioned on foreign soil, and it would not be…

It is relevant, because people are implying the case is much much less further along than it actually is. It is the opinion of the English courts (§153 of http://www.bailii.org/ew/cases/EWHC/Admin/2011/2849.html ) that "there can be no doubt that if what Mr Assange had done had been done in England and Wales, he would have been charged". So the case is far enough along that he would be charged (were this England).

He would be charged were this England and the Swedish prosecutors representation is backed up by evidence. In fact, he can be charged in absentia in Sweden if those representations can be backed up by evidence. Yet they keep stalling with their nonsense about not being able to interview him abroad. Which does raise the question of whether they do have sufficient evidence to get him charge in Sweden at all.

Re: Julian Assange urges US to end Wikileaks 'witch-hunt'

#116

Post by MengYuanLong »

ajanuary wrote: post #13
tjoff wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Assange have suggested that interviews could be held over video conference or in the UK, not an unreasonable request (and something that has been done in other cases so the only problem is this particular prosecutor). Even the defense lawyer for the women have suggested it. I believe Assange has reasons to be afraid and even if an extradition to the US might be unlikely it is his life that is gambled with. As a Swede…

My understanding is they don't just want to question him, they're at the stage they want to charge him. You can't really do that over video conference. [edited to change 'prosecute' to 'charge']

I'm extremely late to this thread and unsure where best to post this. That said, if I wanted to seriously question an individual, I would most want to control the environment. Would video conferencing allow that?

Re: Julian Assange urges US to end Wikileaks 'witch-hunt'

#117

Post by ForrestN »

philwelch wrote: post #112
ForrestN wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The video is part of an ongoing story: the wide-ranging political and diplomatic implications of decentralized leaks that can't be kept from the public once they're out. This story is certainly evidence of an entirely new, technology-centric phenomenon that I personally find highly interesting.

Wikileaks is interesting. Julian Assange's personal affairs are not.

This is not his personal affairs; this is a public speech he's giving about Wikileaks, and an alleged international conspiracy to destroy the organization. Maybe it's trumped up, I'm agnostic on that point. But it's highly contentious whether or not this is about Assange's personal affairs, or if his personal affairs are being used as a weapon against Wikileaks.

Re: Julian Assange urges US to end Wikileaks 'witch-hunt'

#118

Post by philwelch »

ForrestN wrote: post #117
philwelch wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wikileaks is interesting. Julian Assange's personal affairs are not.

This is not his personal affairs; this is a public speech he's giving about Wikileaks, and an alleged international conspiracy to destroy the organization. Maybe it's trumped up, I'm agnostic on that point. But it's highly contentious whether or not this is about Assange's personal affairs, or if his personal affairs are being used as a weapon against Wikileaks.

Well, yours is the first comment I've seen in this thread that actually discusses the speech or Wikileaks, rather than rehashing that tired old argument about whether the Swedish actually want to try Assange for rape or whether it's some kind of CIA conspiracy.

Re: Julian Assange urges US to end Wikileaks 'witch-hunt'

#119

Post by ForrestN »

philwelch wrote: post #118
ForrestN wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is not his personal affairs; this is a public speech he's giving about Wikileaks, and an alleged international conspiracy to destroy the organization. Maybe it's trumped up, I'm agnostic on that point. But it's highly contentious whether or not this is about Assange's personal affairs, or if his personal affairs are being used as a weapon against Wikileaks.

Well, yours is the first comment I've seen in this thread that actually discusses the speech or Wikileaks, rather than rehashing that tired old argument about whether the Swedish actually want to try Assange for rape or whether it's some kind of CIA conspiracy.

OK— last post on this. If you think it's a CIA conspiracy trying to undermine Wikileaks, this rape charge is part of that story. Obviously that's in question, which is why it's not possible to think of this as obviously inappropriate.

Re: Julian Assange urges US to end Wikileaks 'witch-hunt'

#120

Post by philwelch »

ForrestN wrote: post #119
philwelch wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, yours is the first comment I've seen in this thread that actually discusses the speech or Wikileaks, rather than rehashing that tired old argument about whether the Swedish actually want to try Assange for rape or whether it's some kind of CIA conspiracy.

OK— last post on this. If you think it's a CIA conspiracy trying to undermine Wikileaks, this rape charge is part of that story. Obviously that's in question, which is why it's not possible to think of this as obviously inappropriate.

You can manufacture whatever loophole you want to get around the guidelines. The front page still gets full of crap that doesn't engage the intellectual curiosity.
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