Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Klarna changes its AI tune and again recruits humans for customer service

customerexperiencedive.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

111–120 of 136 posts

Re: Klarna changes its AI tune and again recruits humans for customer service

#111

Post by aspenmayer »

lukan wrote: post #110
aspenmayer wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the 80s and 90s, Japan was the vaguely menacing economic bogeyman but that seems to have been in stark contrast to all I read about how Japan had almost no growth in GDP through those years due to inflation or something I have already forgotten. Which is why I don’t really look at what China or the US is doing as being surprising. China has been the bad guy since they were admitted to the WTO, if I had to put a da…

"I don’t know why socialism, Marxism, or whatever is blamed for dictators doing bad things for good/bad/no reason. " Maybe because the base of the theory comes with violence included? The need to take something of other people away(means of production) and maintain that order against expected resistance of the current owners? It is really not surprising to me, that all experiments ended with totalitarism, because how…

I don’t see the violence inherent to the system, at least not any more violence than is in any system in which the state has a monopoly on violence and has the power of eminent domain.

If everyone in China could vote, and they voted along party lines as they do now, the system would be democratic in nature, and yet, nothing would change immediately as far as the US-China relation because the issue is multidimensional. Compromise between nations is a kind of diplomatic solution that is not available to individuals with respect to their government. It would be great for many people if China were democratic. Would it be better for all? Would it be better for the US? I’m not sure, but probably. But that’s not a mandate to subvert sovereignty, it’s a matter of trade offs. No one cares if Vietnam is socialist now, and they barely care that Cuba is. These things matter geopolitically, but they don’t matter to the average person.

Re: Klarna changes its AI tune and again recruits humans for customer service

#112

Post by lukan »

aspenmayer wrote: post #111
lukan wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"I don’t know why socialism, Marxism, or whatever is blamed for dictators doing bad things for good/bad/no reason. " Maybe because the base of the theory comes with violence included? The need to take something of other people away(means of production) and maintain that order against expected resistance of the current owners? It is really not surprising to me, that all experiments ended with totalitarism, because how…

I don’t see the violence inherent to the system, at least not any more violence than is in any system in which the state has a monopoly on violence and has the power of eminent domain. If everyone in China could vote, and they voted along party lines as they do now, the system would be democratic in nature, and yet, nothing would change immediately as far as the US-China relation because the issue is multidimensional…

"but they don’t matter to the average person."

Yeah, but the average person apparently rather wants to live in a democracy than in a pseudodemocratic socialist state.

I was too young to remember much of day to day life - but I do remember vividly the joy of the people after socialism was over.

Re: Klarna changes its AI tune and again recruits humans for customer service

#113

Post by aspenmayer »

lukan wrote: post #112
aspenmayer wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t see the violence inherent to the system, at least not any more violence than is in any system in which the state has a monopoly on violence and has the power of eminent domain. If everyone in China could vote, and they voted along party lines as they do now, the system would be democratic in nature, and yet, nothing would change immediately as far as the US-China relation because the issue is multidimensional…

"but they don’t matter to the average person." Yeah, but the average person apparently rather wants to live in a democracy than in a pseudodemocratic socialist state. I was too young to remember much of day to day life - but I do remember vividly the joy of the people after socialism was over.

That's great. I'm happy for you, really. I want that experience for everyone, but you still have to go to work tomorrow.

That's the sense in which I mean it doesn't matter. The certainty of labor under a system of control operated for profit is another sort of pseudo-democratic state we find ourselves in, and I hope I'm not too old to see the day that the last person works the last shift of wage labor, as that will be another sort of cause for celebration.

Re: Klarna changes its AI tune and again recruits humans for customer service

#114

Post by n_ary »

This tune change should be also correctly correlated to their IPO delay. AI jump previously approaching to an IPO was a hasty attempt to rapidly cut costs and make the books more nice. Presently, they delayed the IPO again possibly to next Autumn.

Re: Klarna changes its AI tune and again recruits humans for customer service

#115

Post by lukan »

aspenmayer wrote: post #113
lukan wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"but they don’t matter to the average person." Yeah, but the average person apparently rather wants to live in a democracy than in a pseudodemocratic socialist state. I was too young to remember much of day to day life - but I do remember vividly the joy of the people after socialism was over.

That's great. I'm happy for you, really. I want that experience for everyone, but you still have to go to work tomorrow. That's the sense in which I mean it doesn't matter. The certainty of labor under a system of control operated for profit is another sort of pseudo-democratic state we find ourselves in, and I hope I'm not too old to see the day that the last person works the last shift of wage labor, as that will b…

"I hope I'm not too old to see the day that the last person works the last shift of wage labor, as that will be another sort of cause for celebration."

Oh, I agree to that, that is why I would not like to repeat the misstakes of the past on the pursuit to get there.

So in the now I prefer to have the freedom to really choose my jobs or also choose to go away or choose to freelance. All not really possible before.

Re: Klarna changes its AI tune and again recruits humans for customer service

#116

Post by rwmj »

christophilus wrote: post #78
rwmj wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's Ryanair all over again. Remember the stories about how Ryanair were going to make passengers pay to use the toilets, or the "all standing" plane (which would obviously be highly illegal, but credulous journalists printed it anyway). All a very cheap, very successful marketing campaign.

How is that a successful marketing campaign? Who were they marketing to? Sardines?

The main thing was it got their name in the papers, and (in this case) their notoriety as "the cheapest airline" was exactly what they wanted.

Re: Klarna changes its AI tune and again recruits humans for customer service

#117

Post by aspenmayer »

lukan wrote: post #115
aspenmayer wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's great. I'm happy for you, really. I want that experience for everyone, but you still have to go to work tomorrow. That's the sense in which I mean it doesn't matter. The certainty of labor under a system of control operated for profit is another sort of pseudo-democratic state we find ourselves in, and I hope I'm not too old to see the day that the last person works the last shift of wage labor, as that will b…

"I hope I'm not too old to see the day that the last person works the last shift of wage labor, as that will be another sort of cause for celebration." Oh, I agree to that, that is why I would not like to repeat the misstakes of the past on the pursuit to get there. So in the now I prefer to have the freedom to really choose my jobs or also choose to go away or choose to freelance. All not really possible before.

I think a lot of the dicussion is around the conflation of socialism/communism as a form of government or as an economic system. In practice, no country is self-sufficient and need not be due to comparative advantage. Thus, no country could truly be independent of capitalism as long as it exists, but capitalism is really just goods and services and salespeople and ads. It's a system of control that is powered by scarcity and incentive structures. It's designed to find the diamond in the rough in every capitalist subject, and then sell it back to you. Even your very dissent against the system is commoditized, and I think this is why China operates the way it does, as some kind of principled countervailing force against the inexorable nature of capitalist headwinds. If you can't beat the profit motive, you can at least drive the wage for labor to zero.

Arguably, China stands to benefit more from recent advances like AI than the US, because China already had cheap solutions better than AI for manufacturing, human workers. Now knowledge workers have an efficiency boost by working with AI, which may help keep wages from rising too fast for those whose jobs aren't impacted by AI yet, but they're going to go up.

Re: Klarna changes its AI tune and again recruits humans for customer service

#120

Post by lukan »

aspenmayer wrote: post #117
lukan wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"I hope I'm not too old to see the day that the last person works the last shift of wage labor, as that will be another sort of cause for celebration." Oh, I agree to that, that is why I would not like to repeat the misstakes of the past on the pursuit to get there. So in the now I prefer to have the freedom to really choose my jobs or also choose to go away or choose to freelance. All not really possible before.

I think a lot of the dicussion is around the conflation of socialism/communism as a form of government or as an economic system. In practice, no country is self-sufficient and need not be due to comparative advantage. Thus, no country could truly be independent of capitalism as long as it exists, but capitalism is really just goods and services and salespeople and ads. It's a system of control that is powered by scar…

"because China already had cheap solutions better than AI for manufacturing, human workers."

Yeah. They have cheap workers.

But wasn't the whole point of socialism and the workers movement to not have cheap wage slaves anymore? But to value humans?

"capitalism is really just goods and services and salespeople and ads. "

And you don't think this is kind of an useless oversimplification?

The point of free market systems is, that there is no central authority doing all the planning.

So when you want that central authority, it is authorian by design.

Now you can argue that there is indeed a lot of planning and regulation in our free market capitalism. And that the "blood" of free markets, money creation isn't free either. And that some people have so much money in effect controlling the regulators etc.

But would you actually rather live in china?

Post reply on HN