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Memory-safe sudo to become the default in Ubuntu

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Re: Memory-safe sudo to become the default in Ubuntu

#111

Post by bheadmaster »

fsflover wrote: post #95
bheadmaster wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> we do not need a flame war or chain of comments about what RMS' valid points were, when he was being (tremendously but unintentionally) offensive, and when he was merely being overly pedantic If your intention is to not start a flame war, you might want to avoid contraversial topics such as the obviously manufactured canceling of RMS by the-powers-that-be.

And if you do want to see some flame war about the real RMS cancelling, here you go: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22299156

Yeah, I remember that. That canceling was exactly what I referred to. I didn't mean to imply that the canceling was fake by putting it in the quotes, but that it was intentional and orchestrated. I've removed the quotes to avoid further misunderstanding.

Re: Memory-safe sudo to become the default in Ubuntu

#112

Post by __s »

atoav wrote: post #68
homefree wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

The comment you responded to says: "Seems odd that they don't advertise it [the usage of Rust], though." Isn't not advertising a language the polar opposite of being religious about a language? I am all for a memory safe sudo and I don't care which language it is written in, use C, Ada, Rust, as long as it is a suitable systems programming language understood by a community of developers and you can proof memory safe…

There was recently that article about Python switching to a proof verified C crypto library. Yes, I welcome verified C code. But Rust is much easier to use instead

Tho the extra properties re side channels in said verified code outdoes Rust, so I'd also say it'd be undesirable to replace that C code with Rust

Re: Memory-safe sudo to become the default in Ubuntu

#113

Post by steveklabnik »

mid-kid wrote: post #24
homefree wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

We've accepted it at this point, but I wonder if the religious element of GNU tools and free software in general was as contentious way back when.

St IGNUcius has been a thing for a quarter century at least https://stallman.org/saint.html

Re: Memory-safe sudo to become the default in Ubuntu

#114

Post by rurban »

z3t4 wrote: post #75
charcircuit wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I don't think you can realistically enforce a security boundary between root, and a user account that occasionally elevates. So stop doing that!

What should you do instead?

Capabilities. Proper microkernels already do that

Re: Memory-safe sudo to become the default in Ubuntu

#116

Post by __s »

johnisgood wrote: post #96
nailer wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not religious. Memory safety is a thing. If by politics you mean the government: they only got started recommending memory safe languages once it became clear that foreign actors were going to keep exploiting C / C++ vulnerabilities. https://www.theregister.com/2024/11/08/the_us_government_wan...

So why are we not using Ada / SPARK?

Indeed Ada found popularity for aircraft software

Rust is part of a modernized iteration in language design this century

Nobody is calling for Ada code to be rewritten in Rust. But at this point you'd want an argument to choose Ada over Rust when it has become more widespread, especially in open source projects

Here's someone else's take on your question a few years ago: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28347930

Re: Memory-safe sudo to become the default in Ubuntu

#117

Post by steveklabnik »

ffsm8 wrote: post #83
Gabrys1 wrote: post #78

> Ubuntu is the most widely deployed Linux operating system Nitpicking, but I thought Android was the most widely deployed Linux OS around...

Android uses the Linux Kernel, but iirc (correct me if I'm wrong), it doesn't come with the required application to make it Unix and hence is not the Linux operating system. That would mean it's only using the same kernel as the Linux operating system? Idk, just speculating to maybe get the thought process

> it doesn't come with the required application to make it Unix and hence is not the Linux operating system.

Linux is not a Unix https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unix-like

Re: Memory-safe sudo to become the default in Ubuntu

#118

Post by steveklabnik »

ch_123 wrote: post #8
stop50 wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sudo had quite a few problems with security, partially because of this doas was developed for BSD. Some problems come from the huge amount of features(ldap, easter eggs, ...). sudo-rs reduces the problems by not implementing those features.

> Some problems come from the huge amount of features(ldap, easter eggs, ...). sudo-rs reduces the problems by not implementing those features. This makes me wonder: 1) Would a hypothetical "sudo-lite" with these features removed lead to better security without a rewrite? 2) If these features are useful in the real world, will a Rust rewrite of sudo inevitably gain these features over time and end up with similar pro…

2. While a feature may be useful, the question is how useful, and to how many people. sudo-rs is removing features that aren't used very much, if at all, and doesn't plan to add them, to combat this. Those users can still use the original sudo.

Re: Memory-safe sudo to become the default in Ubuntu

#120

Post by drtgh »

VWWHFSfQ wrote: post #23
homefree wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

Memory safety is strictly a good thing, regardless of motivations. But I'm aware that some people are frightened of new languages and paradigms especially if they're 'harder' than what they're used to.

This is not a new paradigm. It is a limitation in the design of the borrow checker, which causes you to go around until the borrowing takes on mainly a tree structure.
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