There's multiple aspects of this story you can tweak such that the business becomes successful. Pick any one of them: 1) There is an extraordinarily lucrative market opportunity in iDevice contracting right now, which they allude to but mentioned that they avoided doing to keep momentum. Giving that living on a couch is presumably not momentum-enhancing, a two week consulting engagement would buy them another 6~24 mo…
How an app with 200,000 downloads led to developer homelessness
111–120 of 129 posts
Re: How an app with 200,000 downloads led to developer homelessness
#112Earlier quoted context omitted.
If I'm right, this was a fantastic job of link-bait. Users, especially parents, hate in-app purchases. But that's the way the app market has gone for now. So far I've been able to resist but except for educational apps (schools have the worst time paying for IAPs), I'll likely be doing a lot of freemium apps. So this hits a sweet spot to vent hate for IAPs and the freemium model. Great job guys.
I've noticed a lot of games in the Mac App Store are starting to have a single "unlock full game" IAP. These I really like. The good ones have enough content to show the nature of the game, get me hooked on the mechanics or story and lead directly into the single unlock. It's a classic shareware model and results in my willingness to pay more for games because there's much less risk. The good ones also are very expli…
As for the guy's situation it sounds like they need some more nag screens and easier ways of sending them money. (Well it is currently a lot easier than the old days of shareware, no envelopes to fill out, just a button to press.
Re: How an app with 200,000 downloads led to developer homelessness
#113Earlier quoted context omitted.
Well, I wish these guys only suffered from "If you build it great, they will come and throw money at you.". No! They suffer from an advanced mutation. "If you build it great, those guys over there will come and throw money at you. Ewwwwwwww. Green stuff. Let's move over here to these guys. They will come and throw 1-star reviews at us. It's the only thing that can push our limits and make us even greater."
I used to work with a group of developers in the MIT Media Lab who, honestly, were some of the most moral and upstanding individuals I've ever met. They spent a lot of time trying building software to help people in need. But the one thing that I could never wrap my head around was the fact that they saw money as inherently evil. They went so far as to actively avoid using or accepting money, to the point that it act…
The upside of people wanting to give their labors away in exchange for recognition or a university paycheck is that it has pushed the rest of us up the value chain. Big companies want to be like IBM in 1970 -- owners of the marketplace, who stick you with whatever makes sense to them. That's why greybeard mainframe types call everything that isn't a mainframe "open systems". IBM, Control Data, etc were (and in some cases are) so restrictive that you literally had to provide their on-site engineers with a private office suite in your facility that your employees were not allowed to enter. (Where the manuals, etc were kept.)
All of this "giving away" of stuff has stopped our society from reinventing the wheel. I can provide motivated people with marginal education and they can produce useful things without a deep understanding of how computers and compiler work. That's powerful stuff.
True believers always come with associated baggage. Whether they want your money, your soul, or something in between, there's always ups and downs.
Re: How an app with 200,000 downloads led to developer homelessness
#114Earlier quoted context omitted.
awolf, thanks for chiming in based on your experience. I'm really pleased to hear you've had success with your apps. I'm sorry about my hyperbolic tones earlier. It's just that there's so much blind hype about the app stores, that it upsets me to see indie devs getting lured in and going bust. I don't hate Apple. I think they are brilliant. I haven't done huge amounts of research on the distribution of outcomes for d…
>you'd have to sell to a hell of a lot of people to make any decent money No. This right here is where you're way off. Some hypothetical math: $3.99 app, $2.79 after Apple's cut. $2.79 X 50 sales/day = $139.5 revune/day = $50,917 per year. Enough to live and quite conservative if you make a quality product.
How long does it take to make a $3.99 app? Do you factor in those development costs?
If it's just one person and you make $50K, that's fine. But what if there's two of you?
What's the probability of getting 50 sales/day and for how long? In the event that you get, let's say 25 sales/day, what's your fallback strategy?
awolf, you may very well be selling hundreds of copies a day of your apps at 10 bucks a piece, but the point is that the vast majority don't.
Re: How an app with 200,000 downloads led to developer homelessness
#115There's multiple aspects of this story you can tweak such that the business becomes successful. Pick any one of them: 1) There is an extraordinarily lucrative market opportunity in iDevice contracting right now, which they allude to but mentioned that they avoided doing to keep momentum. Giving that living on a couch is presumably not momentum-enhancing, a two week consulting engagement would buy them another 6~24 mo…
These guys want to make video games. Maybe that's enough to make it work and maybe not. Time will tell. But by the logic of #3 we should all just do whatever puts money in the bank. That argument quickly devolves into a lot of would-be entrepreneurs sulking back to jobs they vowed they would learn to live without or building companies that are temporary money making opportunities, not something worth the devotion required.
Most importantly, these kids are making games with traction -- 200k downloads in a week is very, very good, especially since they don't seem to be that focused on actually marketing their games. That means they've got some special sauce. Tweaking what they have to bring up conversions is a solvable problem. Finding pizza money is a solvable problem.
If they're broke and people are playing their games then that means their customer acquisition costs are basically zero (since they don't have any money for it anyway). They don't have to get conversions up that far to turn an acceptable profit (especially since these guys apparently live on peanuts).
"You're competing for the business of toxic people who hate paying money" -- that's simplistic to say the least. I don't want to bother to dig up numbers but plenty of money is spent on games on mobiles and everywhere else. If you want to generalize that way you might say that about the whole mobile "app" market and the drive towards free or $.99 -- people expecting a lot for nothing -- yet it's still a thriving industry. If you're talking about the freemium or f2p model (in apps or games) it's not like the concept was invented by Zynga. The fact that freemium works was discovered -- it's a model the market supports and supports well.
"Well-funded corporations (which have high production values and effective, ruthless monetization)" -- high production values, especially on mobile where AAA graphics and open, 3D worlds aren't possible or even desirable, is not the issue it is on the consoles and PCs. Plenty of successful games are relatively simple 2D and have limited content. High production values in those cases can be measured in thousands of dollars, not millions. Ruthless monetization? What difference does that make in terms of competition, especially since we're talking about "well-funded corporations?"
If you're not that familiar with the market, pick up a big EA title and then play something like Tiny Wings. Which one was more fun? What do you think their comparative budgets were?
The "big corporations" -- EA et al I guess you mean -- were slow to move to this newest mobile market and have had a hard time making games people really like. They make up for it with marketing spend, but it's not like people aren't playing games like Tiny Wings because they can't pull themselves away from Mass Effect: Infiltrator.
If you mean mobile publishers like Chillingo et al then there's absolutely nothing stopping these guys from having a publisher like that pick up their game. There are pros and cons to doing so, but I doubt these guys would have any problem finding a publisher with the number of d/l they're getting.
"And amateur hobbyist artistes (who have "that vision thing" and are willing to starve to deliver it for free)." -- I'm not sure who these people are, but if you mean part-time developers flooding the market with low quality, free games, that only hinders visibility in the app stores. App store visibility as a sales tool was a fluke of the birth of these app stores and is now gone, never to return (although people are still seeing those effects in the Android markets). The amateur, as in most markets, has very little effect on the market as a whole.
If you're talking about developers with vision -- say the developers of Braid or World of Goo or say Notch -- these people don't work for free or hurt the industry. I'd say they elevate the entire state of the industry and turn more people onto games.
These guys should definitely learn the business side of what they're doing but it sounds like they absolutely should not stop making games.
Re: How an app with 200,000 downloads led to developer homelessness
#116I hope they read this (not sure if they will), but: Ads! I've a friend who gets approx $4/user/year from a non-game mobile app from ads through mobclix. I think it's a fair assumption that you'd get even more ad impressions on a game (as people spend more time in games), but even without that, 200k players * $4 each = a lot of money.
-Greg
Re: How an app with 200,000 downloads led to developer homelessness
#117They're now Top 200 Grossing on iPad- seems like they managed to trip their way into one hell of a marketing strategy. 1) Bitch about not making enough money because you boned your conversion funnel. 2) Get an article written about how you don't make enough money 3) Make money! Don't try this at home.
Re: How an app with 200,000 downloads led to developer homelessness
#118They want to have "a free game", a "cheap upgrade" and a "only one upgrade needed". Three things that do not match. If they are going for a free game but that offers the enthusiastic 1% an payed to play upgrade, that upgrade can not be cheap. If they increase to 29.9$, their conversion rate would likely only go from 0.67% to 0.5%, but increasing profits by around 500%.
Re: How an app with 200,000 downloads led to developer homelessness
#119I see you have finally figured this out (now that you are homeless). If that does not boost your revenues - Lower the price to 1.99 or $0.99. We are in a bad economy and $2.99 is not in the sweet spot by any means.
Re: How an app with 200,000 downloads led to developer homelessness
#120Ctdonath summed it up beautifully... "1. The "buy" button was hidden. People who wanted to pay couldn't find it. People didn't even know there was anything to pay for.
2. The app has been out a week. Users haven't had time to play thru the free content and develop any desire for [unknown (see #1)] paid content.
Made near all users sound like Scroogeish tightwads. Unfair."