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Apple App Store guidelines remove ban on encouraging external payments in US

developer.apple.com

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Re: Apple App Store guidelines remove ban on encouraging external payments in US

#111

Post by andiareso »

Aaargh20318 wrote: post #49
hnlmorg wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ironically the App Store only exists because of the ridicule Apple received when they announced their new smartphone which then only supported 3rd party applications as web apps. Back then, native apps were considered a “must have” feature for smartphones. How times have changed.

> How times have changed. They really haven't. 'Web apps' are terrible, both from an end-user and developer perspective. They are a bloated, overcomplicated mess.

What!? Yikes that’s an overstatement. I prefer to use web apps over downloading an app to do a single action and then deleting.

There are lots of good web apps. The problem is that companies more often than not prioritize native (let’s be real, react native) apps over web. And not mobile web, desktop web. So you have a second thought of a second thought when designing and building a mobile friendly web app.

I build most of my clients’ apps as web apps. I target their main platform of choice first and branch out from there. But if I start with desktop, I pre-plan for mobile as well.

You can have high performing web apps if you continually optimize for state and rendering performance.

Re: Apple App Store guidelines remove ban on encouraging external payments in US

#112

Post by zackify »

Crazy. I thought hackernews didn’t care because this happened yesterday and I never saw anything!

We’re updating our app in a couple days this will save a LOT of money.

We will kick users out to web and pass a JWT in the url with a short lifespan to log the user in on web and then prompt for Apple Pay or credit card. Then a link back to our app’s deep link

Re: Apple App Store guidelines remove ban on encouraging external payments in US

#113

Post by jajko »

lapcat wrote: post #84
coldcode wrote: post #69

At the risk of not piling on to the Apple dislike here, if you use a non-Apple payment system, and you have an issue, you now need to go to the specific company and payment system, you can no longer demand your money back by dealing with a single company. I presume even more scam apps will take your money and ignore your complaints; imagine trying to sue a company in some foreign country to try to get your money back…

> When Apple controlled the payment system, Apple could be sued in your home country. Have any App Store consumers sued Apple? And were they successful? Apple does refuse App Store refunds all the time. Apple also closes consumer Apple accounts all the time, for some reason or no reason, often refusing to tell the consumer the reason, alleging some kind of fraud, in which case the consumer loses everything they've ev…

Do they do such a-holish immoral moves also in EU? There could be a billion or 5 fine for them in the waiting, we don't like to get fucked over by greedy corporations, no sir.

We need all the money we can get for killing some russians once they invade our borders in near future, so any contribution is highly appreciated.

Re: Apple App Store guidelines remove ban on encouraging external payments in US

#114

Post by talkingtab »

coldcode wrote: post #69

At the risk of not piling on to the Apple dislike here, if you use a non-Apple payment system, and you have an issue, you now need to go to the specific company and payment system, you can no longer demand your money back by dealing with a single company. I presume even more scam apps will take your money and ignore your complaints; imagine trying to sue a company in some foreign country to try to get your money back…

People are still able to use Apple payments. They just have other choices now. At least that is my understanding. Wanting choices does not seem like "Apple dislike". To me, at least.

Re: Apple App Store guidelines remove ban on encouraging external payments in US

#115

Post by InsideOutSanta »

Aaargh20318 wrote: post #56
dartharva wrote: post #5

In the same article: 3.1.1 In-App Purchase: If you want to unlock features or functionality within your app, (by way of example: subscriptions, in-game currencies, game levels, access to premium content, or unlocking a full version), you must use in-app purchase. Apps may not use their own mechanisms to unlock content or functionality, such as license keys, augmented reality markers, QR codes, cryptocurrencies and cr…

> Oof, I don't envy app developers who have to tolerate this bullshit You're confusing developers with publishers. Developers love this shit, one simple API that's built in to the OS and you can support payments worldwide instead of having to integrate with dozens of payment providers all with their own quirky APIs. Now for publishers, who want to maximise their profit margins and who don't have to actually write the…

> Developers love this shit

Somebody needs to alert the developers, because they're currently unaware of how much they love it. I've only ever seen devs complain about this stuff.

Of course, this is a self-selected group because people who are happy with the status quo don't usually talk about it loudly online. Still, many developers, including iOS-only indies, are unhappy with the App Store's payment constraints. Check out mjtsai's blog for regular roundups of their complaints.

Re: Apple App Store guidelines remove ban on encouraging external payments in US

#116

Post by [deleted] »

klabb3 wrote: post #28
fundatus wrote: post #3

Sigh, not that I expected anything else from Apple at this point but of course they only change the rules for the US.

Apple was doing malicious compliance all along. It’s not surprising. But this is extremely good news, because it dampens FUD and narratives such as ”the EU is only going after American companies with frivolous rules”. If you get punished this hard for anti-trust, in the US, you are so out of line it’s not even funny. So it adds legitimacy to the free market spirit seen in markets like EU, which has been criticized fo…

[deleted]

Re: Apple App Store guidelines remove ban on encouraging external payments in US

#118

Post by caseyy »

crazygringo wrote: post #104
UncleMeat wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are free to only use apps that use apple payments if you are concerned about this.

But then there are apps you were able to use previously that you will no longer be able to trust. That's the problem -- it's taking away trust. You're not free to continue using Apple's payment system as a consumer.

What do you mean? The app can use Apple's system and its own. If the developers don't want your money on terms fair to you, you don't buy.

Some things are relatively easy to refund via Apple, but not all of them. It's nearly impossible to get a refund for in-app purchases, gift cards, balance top-ups, auto-renewing subscriptions, redeemed digital goods, and so on. Coming from the EU, if I paid for these things directly with a credit card, I'd be able to get a refund in line with our consumer protection laws (if the item was sold deceptively, if it has a fault, if I am not satisfied for any reason within 14 days) that cover more or less all digital purchases - no problem.

To borrow your words, Apple's system is taking away trust. I like the refunds my European bank offers me because it operates under consumer-friendly laws. I don't trust Apple's refunds.

Anyway, opening any system to more choices for the consumer cannot decrease trust. If the consumer trusts the original payment option, they can use that. If that is not provided, but the customers don't trust other payment methods, the app won't make money. The market will soon negotiate so that the payment methods that customers and sellers find acceptable prevail. Apple fears it won't be their extortion (I mean payment system), and rightfully so. Aside from the Stockholm syndrome, there's very little reason to use it.

Re: Apple App Store guidelines remove ban on encouraging external payments in US

#119

Post by candiddevmike »

zackify wrote: post #112

Crazy. I thought hackernews didn’t care because this happened yesterday and I never saw anything! We’re updating our app in a couple days this will save a LOT of money. We will kick users out to web and pass a JWT in the url with a short lifespan to log the user in on web and then prompt for Apple Pay or credit card. Then a link back to our app’s deep link

So many questions:

- Why not just handle all of this in the app? Do you think Apple won't allow it?

- Are you geofencing this functionality? It seems like per other comments this is US only.

- How are you handling existing subscribers (not sure if applicable)? Will you "encourage" them to migrate?

Re: Apple App Store guidelines remove ban on encouraging external payments in US

#120

Post by alt227 »

deeThrow94 wrote: post #58
pokot0 wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think a more interesting question is: who is “self”? US is historically more prone to favor business, while EU seems more concerned in protecting consumers. And of course there is the noise generated by incompetence/corruption/lobbying that makes the question of “in the interest of whom are laws made?” very nuanced.

Very good points. I've been trying to figure out whose interest is in our "national interests" my entire life. It sure ain't protecting my interests or those of anyone I love that justifies a trillion dollar a year military.

I am pretty sure if the US decided to get rid of its military entirely, then it wouldnt be long before it was invaded by Russia or China and then the interests of the people you love would be severly impacted.

The world stage is no more a safe place than it has been for any other part of history.

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