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The hospital where staff treat fear of death as well as physical pain

theguardian.com

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Re: The hospital where staff treat fear of death as well as physical pain

#111

Post by NoMoreNicksLeft »

theothertimcook wrote: post #57

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terror_management_theory

Humans don't have a self-preservation instinct. Instead, like all life, they properly have a reproductive instinct. We only have self-preservation instincts as far as is necessary to make reproduction possible. In an age where many are deliberately "child free" it might start to look as if terror management is the name of the game, but that's just an artifact of a bunch of other neuroses that have taken hold.

I need to die so that there's room for my grandchildren and great-grandchildren.

Re: The hospital where staff treat fear of death as well as physical pain

#112

Post by dTal »

caseyy wrote: post #2

I don’t fear death, it is natural. I fear the suffering society will put me through when I’m old and ill, because they can’t cope with death. It’s good we are starting to develop dignified death laws. With the world population as it is, more people will die in the next decade than any other in history (even the plagues). Just looking at population graphs, 1B might die between 2050 and 2060. Much suffering can be avoi…

I think you do fear death, given that you plan to live until it is physically impossible for you to do so painlessly. If you don't fear death, an easy and reliable way to avoid suffering in your old age is to painlessly commit suicide right now. But be aware that we treat people who don't express a preference for staying alive as having a serious mental illness worth locking them up for.

Fear of death is not just natural, it is the most fundamental instinct of any creature besides reproduction. Those who don't have it, don't last long. Perhaps society's attitudes towards it could profitably be improved, but don't make out like it's an irrational personality flaw.

Re: The hospital where staff treat fear of death as well as physical pain

#113

Post by magicalhippo »

breckenedge wrote: post #104
magicalhippo wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My SO worked at a nursing home which had several elderly with dementia cry out they just wanted to die all day long, day after day. Yet they got their flu shots and got treated for any infections they might get. This went on for the two years my SO worked there. My dad had cancer that spread to his lungs, and then he got pneumonia. The day after being hospitalized, he asked the doctor if it was a chance he'd ever get…

That’s not necessarily a choice that the nursing home can make. Many families struggle with letting a loved one go. Up to a few years ago, I was meeting with an obviously struggling 101yo weekly, and the family refused hospice despite it being covered by Medicare. The family equated hospice with actively killing someone.

Not blaming the nursing home. Just shared two episodes that significantly influenced my wish to have a choice.

Re: The hospital where staff treat fear of death as well as physical pain

#114

Post by cess11 »

csense wrote: post #110
cess11 wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We've wrecked our habitat and keep most of humanity in some form or other of slavery, and there are exactly zero credible social movements aiming for another course. Why would we want to watch this deterioration and tyranny go on for centuries more? As for 'non-biological' humans, I'm assuming you believe in some soul that could be transfered from your body to a computer? If so, that's clearly into deeply religious t…

> You are an analog being, you view the world as analog projections onto a mammal cortex. That is fundamentally, ontologically very different from digitally virtual environments. No it's not. If you accept "mind is brain" (i.e. consciousness is a phenomena within known or knowable laws of physics), a digital virtual environment that simulates the laws of physics (to arbitrarily good precision) could have brains (and…

Like I said, that is a religious view, and as I alluded to, I do not accept it.

I'm also not a fan of crypto-christian conceptions of historical "progress". Life was interesting and worth living in the past.

Re: The hospital where staff treat fear of death as well as physical pain

#115

Post by mensetmanusman »

caseyy wrote: post #2

I don’t fear death, it is natural. I fear the suffering society will put me through when I’m old and ill, because they can’t cope with death. It’s good we are starting to develop dignified death laws. With the world population as it is, more people will die in the next decade than any other in history (even the plagues). Just looking at population graphs, 1B might die between 2050 and 2060. Much suffering can be avoi…

Overworked nurses and suicide booth technicians on night shift will greatly dampen this utopia where dignified death isn’t usurped by lower-cost-at-all-costs reality.

Idealism can cause so much suffering in this way.

Re: The hospital where staff treat fear of death as well as physical pain

#116

Post by whalesalad »

philjohn wrote: post #103
whalesalad wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When I reach that point in my life I’ll probably just put a bullet in my own head. And I don’t want a fancy burial or cremation… toss me in the ground and plant a tree on top of me.

It often happens much faster than you'd think, and towards the end you're often on constant morphine for comfort.

If you have a terminal condition yes. But if you’re not terminal this won’t happen. Sometimes a hospice org will sorta do this under the table but realistically they have no incentive to terminate your life early as they are paid for taking care of you.

tl;dr do it yourself before it’s too late

Re: The hospital where staff treat fear of death as well as physical pain

#117

Post by Tijdreiziger »

ajmurmann wrote: post #90
alabastervlog wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't get how people can't be kinda freaked out by the universe subjectively fast-forwarding to its end, to occur at any time between this second and a few decades from now.

Worse you won't see how it ends! I recently read a novel (this is a massive spoiler so I am not naming it) that drove this point home extremely well and has me thinking about it all the time since I read it. The book built up a number of enticing storylines. A huge mystery, various characters had struggles we wanted to learn about. However, the book resolves almost none of this because the protagonist dies and we jus…

Who cares?

Sometimes, you don’t know everything, nor will you. You won’t be around for everything. This is the human condition.

It seems unwise to spend too many brain cycles worrying about this.

Re: The hospital where staff treat fear of death as well as physical pain

#118

Post by kiba »

psunavy03 wrote: post #97
ajmurmann wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Worse you won't see how it ends! I recently read a novel (this is a massive spoiler so I am not naming it) that drove this point home extremely well and has me thinking about it all the time since I read it. The book built up a number of enticing storylines. A huge mystery, various characters had struggles we wanted to learn about. However, the book resolves almost none of this because the protagonist dies and we jus…

This is highly dependent on one's own belief system and theology, because beyond a certain point, we literally can't prove what happens to a human mind when the body dies, the existence or non-existence of a soul, etc. Believe or disbelieve whatever you like, go on about a God of the Gaps, but that's why they talk about people's religious "faith."

You're right that there's no way of knowing, but there's no need to make up something from thin air and believe that somehow is true.

Re: The hospital where staff treat fear of death as well as physical pain

#119

Post by susiecambria »

caseyy wrote: post #2

I don’t fear death, it is natural. I fear the suffering society will put me through when I’m old and ill, because they can’t cope with death. It’s good we are starting to develop dignified death laws. With the world population as it is, more people will die in the next decade than any other in history (even the plagues). Just looking at population graphs, 1B might die between 2050 and 2060. Much suffering can be avoi…

I agree with your take. Very long story, while my family doesn't talk about feelings, we're pretty good at talking about end of life.

Separately, some years ago spent a good amount of time listening to what Atul Gawande thought about medicine and doctors and dying. He wrote Being Mortal: Medicine and What Matters in the End and there's a Frontline documentary (Being Mortal) about his experience and his book: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lQhI3Jb7vMg. I've not yet read the book.

Re: The hospital where staff treat fear of death as well as physical pain

#120

Post by eth0up »

cancerhacker wrote: post #44

(Edited to add: Sorry, too long of a post here. I didn’t bother to renew my domain this year) A timely piece I can relate to. currently starting my second week in a (US) hospital oncology ward after my 11th cycle of chemo. I was first diagnosed with stage iv colon cancer and after chemo, surgery, resections and stubbornness was NED from 2018 to 2025. The return is inoperable and I was given “six months to a year”. I…

You're a warlord man! Atheist or not, I'll be honored to meet you on the other side. I wish you many blessings inbetween and appreciate the courage.
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