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Tipping: How Gratuity Replaced Fair Wages in U.S. Restaurants

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Re: Tipping: How Gratuity Replaced Fair Wages in U.S. Restaurants

#111

Post by switch007 »

rustcleaner wrote: post #67
dguest wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a European have you noticed a recent increase in tipping in Europe as well? In Switzerland a lot of the restaurants that have moved to tablets for payment, and the payment screen pops up a "suggested tip" window with a few options. They might be a bit lower than the standard American tips but it's still there and it never was before.

As an American, may I suggest you Europeans start a social media movement to boycott all businesses in Europe which have that tip screen on their card terminals, before the cancer solidifies its foothold in your home? We won't get rid of tipping here until we get a superdepression for a number of years and no restaraunt operates anymore because literally nobody can afford it.

Tipping has existed for decades, just not on the level as the US. It hasn't become a cancer.

Re: Tipping: How Gratuity Replaced Fair Wages in U.S. Restaurants

#112

Post by insane_dreamer »

I tip because I know that the servers are getting shit pay because business owners are counting on tips to make up the rest.

But I hate it. It's not "tipping" - which is to give some extra to show appreciation for service. It's an underhanded guilt trip to make you pay more than you thought you were going to pay for your meal.

I especially hate "tipping" for cases where no service was provided. It's really just a surcharge on the coffee/whatever.

Raise prices and drop the tipping.

I ate at a restaurant recently where they did just that. They had a little sign on the table that said something along the lines of "we've raised our prices 20% to pay living wages and we don't encourage tipping". I left a small tip anyway, but it was a true tip.

Re: Tipping: How Gratuity Replaced Fair Wages in U.S. Restaurants

#113

Post by lcnPylGDnU4H9OF »

tptacek wrote: post #20
janalsncm wrote: post #18

I hate tipping. The last think I want to do after eating is math. And don’t get me started on the inefficient payment ritual we have to endure: flag down the waiter for the check, wait for the check, wait for them to take your cc, wait for them to ring it up and bring it back, then do some math. Unnecessary. That said, minimum wage is minimum wage. If an employee doesn’t make that up in tips, the law is that the rest…

Servers at a lot of restaurants don't expect to make minimum wage, so don't let "the owners will have have to true comp up to minimum wage" function as an excuse not to tip. If you don't want to tip, don't dine at full-service restaurants in America.

> If you don't want to tip, don't dine at full-service restaurants in America.

Whenever I dine at such a place, I give a 100% tip because it’s easier math and it incentivizes me not to patronize such businesses. (I only go with friends and I never make the suggestion.) Just saying that because I disagree with this perspective; do go to these restaurants and don’t tip if that is your choice.

Tipping used to be a gratuity. It’s a way to say, “Your effort was exceptional and I want to show you how grateful I am for it.” Tips are no longer exceptions, nor gratuitous: they have become an obligation, as you say. I reject this; I am not responsible for the wage of someone I did not hire. I’m not even responsible for the success of the business, except that I owe them what I agreed to pay when I ordered. It’s like every restaurant prices their menu incorrectly and they expect their customers to correct them.

(There is a Prisoner’s Dilemma for the restaurants: if I start paying my staff well, I have to raise (advertised) prices but people still think tipping is necessary so they’ll see my increased prices in that context and be more likely to go to one of my competitors. I don’t mean to say restaurant owners have an easy out, just that the answer to patronize these businesses regularly, while also tipping generously, perpetuates the situation.)

Is it wrong for someone to order carryout from such a full-service restaurant and not tip? If so, what would they be tipping for? If not, how does the wait staff get paid from the order when they’re primarily paid with tips?

Re: Tipping: How Gratuity Replaced Fair Wages in U.S. Restaurants

#114

Post by sireat »

As a European I visited US last December for the first time in 11 years.

What was shocking how many places I would say 80-90% have the "tip before service" payment terminals.

Many of these type of places were those I would not associate with classical service tipping - food counters, bagel, donut, coffee places where you pick up the order from counter.

Then there were some serious restaurant style places with this same type of payment system.

My American friends informed that technically you can skip tipping in these places.

Still this "tip ahead"" seemed really a bit of dark pattern - you feel like if you do not tip you get Tyler Durden clam chowder treatment.

Re: Tipping: How Gratuity Replaced Fair Wages in U.S. Restaurants

#115

Post by scarface_74 »

tossandthrow wrote: post #105
scarface_74 wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

What? The underlying assumption is that, even VC backed companies, can cover their costs with their revenue. It is just a matter of order. When you have capital heavy enterprises, you usually have your costs before you have your revenue.

The purpose of VC funding is not to reach profitability. It’s the reach an “exit” - usually via an acquisition or occasionally via an IPO.

But out of the literally thousands of companies that YC has funded, only about a dozen have gone public and out of those, if you had invested equally when they IPOd, you would have lost about 50% of your investment.

https://medium.com/@kazeemibrahim18/the-post-ipo-performance...

A “success” for a VC company is not a company that ends up being a lifestyle business that muddles along.

Re: Tipping: How Gratuity Replaced Fair Wages in U.S. Restaurants

#116

Post by scarface_74 »

gambiting wrote: post #108
scarface_74 wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If they say up front on every menu that the tip is included and the servers/bartenders are up front and you can actually remove it (I guess you can put less on the bottom line), what’s the issue? Taxes also aren’t included in the menu price. I can’t imagine any of the servers who don’t like the status quo or that would come out better even if they made $20 an hour.

>>Taxes also aren’t included in the menu price That's insane as well. Why aren't they? >>If they say up front on every menu that the tip is included and the servers/bartenders are up front and you can actually remove it (I guess you can put less on the bottom line), what’s the issue? Nothing. Some restaurants in London started doing this now, the menu says a service charge of 10% will apply unless you ask to remove i…

Taxes are hardly ever included on ABY prices in the US.

Re: Tipping: How Gratuity Replaced Fair Wages in U.S. Restaurants

#117

Post by penguin_booze »

vldmrs wrote: post #14

As a European, I can safely say that tipping in American restaurants is one of the most unusual things I remember about America. The amount of tips is huge and they are demanded of you everywhere

Tell them that tipping is against your religious beliefs. They can't question nor challenge it--because, hate crime. Checkmate.

Re: Tipping: How Gratuity Replaced Fair Wages in U.S. Restaurants

#118

Post by gambiting »

scarface_74 wrote: post #116
gambiting wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>>Taxes also aren’t included in the menu price That's insane as well. Why aren't they? >>If they say up front on every menu that the tip is included and the servers/bartenders are up front and you can actually remove it (I guess you can put less on the bottom line), what’s the issue? Nothing. Some restaurants in London started doing this now, the menu says a service charge of 10% will apply unless you ask to remove i…

Taxes are hardly ever included on ABY prices in the US.

Ok, same question applies - why? It's not like the restaurant doesn't know what the taxes are.

Re: Tipping: How Gratuity Replaced Fair Wages in U.S. Restaurants

#119

Post by n4r9 »

amrocha wrote: post #46
mjevans wrote: post #8

1) I want all restaurant workers to just get a fair proper wage... 2) So that tipping is no longer subsidizing the restaurant owners. 3) Also, FFS, when demand is inelastic, the only way to lower prices is MORE SUPPLY (where it's needed). Build the housing, do not stop, just keep going until after we all die.

Restaurant workers already get a fair wage. At minimum they make minimum wage. If you don’t think the minimum wage is fair then fight to raise it. Otherwise you’re gonna have to start tipping at a lot more places than just restaurants.

There are many states where the minimum wage for restaurant workers is $2.13: https://www.dol.gov/agencies/whd/state/minimum-wage/tipped

Re: Tipping: How Gratuity Replaced Fair Wages in U.S. Restaurants

#120

Post by scarface_74 »

gambiting wrote: post #118
scarface_74 wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Taxes are hardly ever included on ABY prices in the US.

Ok, same question applies - why? It's not like the restaurant doesn't know what the taxes are.

Because if one restaurant or retailer in general added taxes and no one else does, it makes their prices seem higher. Everyone in the US knows that taxes aren’t included.
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